This is an automatically generated transcript of the PodPod episode ‘Podimo: Translating the benefits of multilingual podcasting’. We apologise for any errors in spelling and grammar.
Rhianna Dhillon
Hello and welcome to PodPod, the podcast all about podcasting for podcasters. My name is Rhianna Dhillon and I'm joined this week by Matt Hill and Reem Makari. Hi, both.
Reem Makari
Hello.
Matt Hill
Hi. Nice to see you Rhianna.
Rhianna
Hello. Reem. What is going on this week in the world of podcasting? I sort of feel like it's a very busy week for everyone who has ever been involved with making a podcast?
Reem
Well, yes, it's the Podcast Show this week. By the time this goes out, it will be podcast start of Podcast Show because it starts from Tuesday evening, and then Wednesday and Thursday, full days. So I'm currently praying for my future self who is going to be at the Podcast Show, wandering around, stressed out talking to multiple people at once. And I just want to tell her to drink water. Like she'll be fine. But yeah, it's it's very hectic week. But it's a very, very interesting week, because it's all these amazing industry, people, creators, producers, everyone who works in podcasting from every different aspect of podcasting just kind of coming together and, and sharing knowledge and information. So it's just a really big highlight of the year for podcasters. So very, very exciting, although hectic.
Rhianna
So what is the day in the life of Reem at the Podcast Show gonna look like what are you actually doing?
Reem
We have a lot of sessions going on for the Podcast Show. So I'm doing one of those sessions is going to be me on stage talking to people, which will be interesting. Very, very exciting. And, and then we have our own PodPod recording, we're doing a recording from the Podcast Show, which is going to be very exciting. And I think it's one of the first episodes that we're going to do with just us. So I'm really, really looking forward to it. And just kind of catching up and talking about what we've kind of learned so far about podcasting, and what our experience has been with PodPod. And so it's gonna be really cool. And I'm just excited to meet people. So many different people that I've emailed, or I've written about before, like Podimo, and just see them in person and say, Hello. Sometimes it feels like because I'm writing so much it doesn't feel like they're real people out there.
Rhianna
And, Matt, what is going on with you?
Matt
Oh, what isn't going on? Obviously, it's a Podcast Show this week. Yeah. We decamping to Islington for the event. And also, there was another hat on for me because we formed a new company, Podcast Discovery. which is a marketing company. And we have marketing several shows that are on at the Podcast Show, including the number one hits in this country Pod Save the UK, which launched, as you know, a couple of weeks ago to great acclaim and lots of stellar reviews. So we're really chuffed about that and the audiences keep coming and we'll be there to cheer Nish on as he does a 10 minute stand up set about RSS feeds. Definitely check it out.
Rhianna
I was just about to say Oh, brilliant. That means you can introduce me to Nish Kumar, but actually, I've been on TV with him. So I've been there done that. Yeah, fine. So this week, we're talking to Jake Chudnow, who is the Podimo global content and partnership lead. So he's kind of responsible for global content and partnerships that can scale across multiple markets. And just to kind of let the audience know, you've also worked with Jake from Podimo, who are about to speak to
Matt
Yes, we are working with Podimo about on shows. But this was arranged separately. And I just happened to be on this week for the interview. But it does mean I have a lot of insider knowledge which I will try and get Jake to say on air in the public domain. So just watch out for my Machiavellian PodPod reporter.
Rhianna
I will do and we talking to him about translating podcasts. And this was something that he reached out to us to talk about. So it's like a kind of really hot button subject. Not many podcasts, companies are doing it. So it feels like a really pertinent time to speak to Podimo about all of the work that they're doing. So let's have a listen to our interview with Jake. Welcome to PodPod How you doing?
Jake Chudnow
I'm really good. Thank you so much for having me. It's my humble pleasure to be a guest on the PodPod pod.
Rhianna
Thank you.
Matt
Do we call it that, PodPod pod?
Rhianna
Well, the PodPod pod? well, we should
Matt
we should we should absolutely do that. See Jake just like 30 seconds in your presence has already made us completely revamp the ROV. inspire
Rhianna
change. Yeah,
Matt
amazing. Absolutely amazing.
Rhianna
There is a lot of plosive peas though in that so it's always good to like back off the mic a little bit. Yeah. So tell us about Podimo and the work that you're doing?
Jake
Yeah. So Podimo is an app for listening to podcasts and audiobooks very simply. We do act as a pod catcher in the sense that we've got the millions of podcasts distributed on the RSS on our app and with some really nice features like smart discovery and video, but the core of the service is the offering of just under 1000 exclusive shows that are available to paying subscribers. And my role at Podimo is the Global Head of studios, which works across all of our seven markets to help power that exclusive offering, including the new markets where we're producing shows but haven't launched our app yet, like in the UK where I'm based.
Rhianna
So tell us about because we want to talk about translating podcasts. So was that always a kind of major aim with Podimo? Was that always the case? Or did it start out as a different beast?
Jake
A hyperlocal focus has always been a focus of Podimo, but specifically translation hasn't. It happened, you know, with some strategy, but also a little by accident, but I think if you look at across entertainment media translation as standard, TV film print, I would suggest probably under explored in podcasts. The other thing we looked at was that around 90 to 96% of our listeners, depending on the market, are listening to shows in their own native tongue. So even if the listeners in Denmark with the ability to speak English is high, there's a clear preference for listening in local language. So that that presents us a clear opportunity to translate some of our shows not all of them. Not all shows are translatable. But with over 100 translated productions in the in between the last two and three years. I think Podimo is a global leader in podcast translation.
Rhianna
Can you talk a bit about that then about the podcasts that aren't translatable? And why that is? Is it kind of about genre? Or is there another reason?
Jake
Less genre and more format. So I think that the formats that rely specifically on hearing a presenter or a guests personality shine through in an interview format, for example, would be less easily translatable. Whereas a format like one of our own, for example, murder in the north, which is a true crime podcast, it's anthological, recurring over a large number of episodes, but the format is a single Narrator reading a near full script. So we can translate the words one to one across a number of languages.
Matt
Now, full disclosure to the PodPod audience. I've been working with Jake, on murder in the north in a sort of marketing role as part of a company called podcast discovery. And as such know the show intimately. I go to bed with it. It's true, but it's very good nighttime, listen, don't look at me like that.
Rhianna
Well, I just think going to bed listening to murderer stories...
Matt
But it's the single voice structure of it, it works perfectly for like nighttime listening is great. And so it's been really interesting seeing that pick up in the UK markets, because what it was originally kind of put to me that this show was launching, I think, Jake, what was the kind of angle you went for? For a UK audience
Jake
The angle we went for, wasn't specifically different in the UK as to our other markets with murder in the north with the obvious exception of the language. So the I think there's a lot of reasons why murder in the North has worked well in all of our markets, including the UK. But in the UK, I think there's a historic interest in Nordic noir, style, storytelling, and murder in the north does that really well. And true crime, in general is a popular genre in the UK as it is in a lot of markets.
Matt
Yeah, and it has been a big success in this country, I would say it has tapped into existing true crime shows and done really well and seen itself rise up the charts in the true crime in Apple and Spotify. I mean, do you feel like that was a nailed on bet, based on your work with the other in other countries? Or was Was there a bit of nervousness about entering the UK market,
Jake
We approach every new venture with caution. But with the with translated shows, if a show works in one market, we can translate it with a greater degree of confidence. And if we are creating an entirely new show and a new market, and if a show works in 3, 4, 5, 6 markets, then we can be exponentially more confident it'll work in the seventh or eighth. And that was the case with murder in the north, English was the eighth language that the show is translated to. It's had millions and millions and millions of listens and across our market, some off Podimo, some on Podimo. It's charted really well. It's been number one in three or four markets on you know, the the top charts overall and apple and Spotify and it usually is in the top five. It's not number one in true crime in all of those markets.
Matt
And what do you think in terms of like just the production values of the show? No, because of course, you'd already spent the money on the research for the stories, and obviously had to translate those stories into English. But in terms of like, where you spent the money in the in the production for the UK version, where where did you think it was important to still invest in this tried and tested format?
Jake
Yeah, so like you mentioned that the scripts done the sound design is done, I think it's really important that we kept the original sound design, which is very Scandi in nature, where we spent the most in terms of, you know, money, but also time is that I think, I think with the key that translation is that you're not just translating text of a script, you're translating the original content, creative vision, and emotional impact of a story. So the initial process of translation, it's not cheap. But I think where we ended up spending the most time is ensuring that the original creative intent of the words was translated as well.
Rhianna
Do you use software? Do you use people? How do you translate that?
Jake
I am really interested in how technology like AI, for example, will shape the translation industry in the future. But we are a very people focused operation, partially for some of the reasons I just mentioned, you know, that think, if there was a step that we could use software, it would be in that initial translation, but even with that we've used real people in all of our translations.
Rhianna
And do you think that anything is lost in that translation? Even if you're trying to do everything as accurately as possible? If you have somebody listening? Who knows both languages? Do they find that something is missing from one over the other?
Jake
I'd like to think that we as a company are getting to a point where I can confidently answer no to that question. It's taken us a while to get there. And we've learned a lot in the process about the types of formats that are more easily translated more or less, easily translatable. One of our translation partnerships a few years ago was with wondery. And we translated a number of their shows. And it was the dating game killer that we translated into Spanish. And the approach that we took there was to hire a cast of voice actors to try and match the original intonation and emotion of all of the interviews. And I think what happened was, it sounded like a bunch of voice actors trying to match intonation and emotion! So I think, you know, part of the the way that we're aiming to add the answer no to that question is, you know, picking the right format from early doors to translate. So really simply, the more scripted and narrative of the show, the more easily it is to translate. And I think probably the right balance would be somewhere around 70% plus scripted narrative, we have a show called The Missing that we made with what's the story sounds, and Pandora Sykes, and that show was a show that was built to obviously be for a UK audience, but also to be translated. And that's another one we've translated to a number of languages and every episode, but 70% of the episode is narrated by Pandora and 30%. Is, is from contributing contributors, which includes family and friends of the missing subjects.
Matt
Murder in the North is an anthology show. So how many did you order in that first run of UK episodes? And how many Did you have to set out before you knew it was going to be a success?
Jake
Yeah, so I'm not sure the exact number answer to that question. But what I will say is that we, you know, the show's originally created in Danish for an audience in Denmark, which is where our app was born. Having identified the success of that show, and the ability to translate it, because of the format, we first translated into German, and the show was even more successful in German that it was in Danish. And that was one of the original kind of aha moments. Clearly, there's an interest in a Scandi style of storytelling and true crime that hasn't been done yet. In Germany, at least. And with the success of that we translated into Spanish, Norwegian, Dutch, Finnish yet and more. So the success of the translated episodes is one of the reasons why we're continuing the show in its original languages.
Matt
And you have recently begun, moves to dominate Mexico as a territory. has murder in the north launched there. What have you taken from that from launching in several countries that you've that you're taking into the Mexican market?
Jake
Yeah. So murder in the north is there in the sense that there was a pre existing Spanish version, but that was continental Spanish and we haven't yet made a Latin Spanish version of the show. As we either growth in Mexico that will definitely be an opportunity and not a strategic choice not to translate. I think we do see an opportunity in translating Latin Spanish in addition to Castilian Spanish,
Rhianna
if you're translating to other languages, do you always go from the original? Do you always go from the Danish? Or might you do it from English? Or the the English version? Or how does it? Yeah,
Jake
we don't actually always, we do often, but we don't always. And you know, a few examples of that would be when we translate a show from Danish to German, and our German editors really kind of open up the show and do that job of, again, not just translating the work, but translating the original creative intent. And that could be, you know, choosing to leave out some interviews and instead summarise them in script form instead. And so once that work is done in a, in a second language, we would look to use that language to translate into the third, fourth or fifth
Rhianna
with the sort of intonation say, of the narrators who are reading these scripts, are, is it always the same? Or would you say that each country is kind of influenced by the culture in the way that it's read or the emotion behind it?
Jake
yes. and also the, you know, it depends on what the vertical of the show is, you'd read a true crime narrative differently than a history narrative. But yeah, it's interesting, I actually don't feel like we, as a company have learned the right answer to that question, in the sense that we typically see what's worked already, and tried to try to mirror that as best as we can. And again, no, let's, let's try and honour the original creative intent of that podcast was written by written and originally voiced by a man, you know, should we have that be voiced by men in a new language as well, and vice versa? So yeah, I think what we have done is placed local voices who are already popular amongst a certain audience on our shows that can do a good job at helping to localise the show. So for example, we had a partnership with Disney where ahead of the release of the dramatic adaptation of The Dropout podcast across Scandinavia, we translated the podcast to Danish and Norwegian. And in both Denmark and Norway, we had two experts who were an expert in the similar field, and journalists who have reported on similar topics, voice those episodes in those languages, and they were able to create an episode zero and provide their own context as well. So yeah, there is an opportunity, if you find the right voice to do that.
Matt
What I found with the marketing of Murder in the North was that it was a relatively straight sell for an existing True Crime audience in this country. So you could sell them more true crime every week, but from a different country. Right. And so, you know, in terms of trails, where to promote them to it was, if you'd like this sort of thing, you're going to love this show. Does this work in other genres, too? Or is it harder, easier? What do you think?
Jake
We've seen our greatest success in true crime; partially because we've been successful in true crime, we continue translating true crime. I'd like to expand beyond that. And we have expanded a bit into the knowledge space, we have a show called - the English translation will be close to 'Understand in 10 Minutes' - it's a ten-minute show each episode is a different topic. And yeah, that's, that's translated, with relative success across a number of our markets. And like I mentioned before, I think other genres that where there would be that potential would be history, for example, I think once you're edging into territory, where personality becomes a really important part of the message, like comedy, for example, that's where we haven't tried translating as much.
Rhianna
Is that where adaptations might come in? Is that something that you're interested in doing where it's like, okay, it's not a direct translation. But you know, you can literally take the format...
Jake
Yeah, I guess it's important to differentiate that I've been speaking specifically to translation. So far, an adaptation is as similar but different beast, and it is something that we do so within global studios, we have created and seeded a number of formats that we've been the teams that have been produced in their markets with different talents, sometimes different topics. The first one we tried was actually with a show that was originally created in the UK called You Don't Know Me, Chloe Combi, made by Sharon Horgan's Mermade, and explored what it is to be a teenager in 2020. I think that was and how different that was from being a teenager when when a lot of us grew up, or listeners grew up. And we created that show in Spanish with a different host and an entirely different panel of teenagers and they share similar themes per episode as we did in the UK, but obviously, you know, really, really different narratives and different stories.
Rhianna
Was that kind of more successful in one region than an other audience. Do you compare the regions and the countries? Or do you just kind of consider them as completely separate podcasts?
Jake
We do. Yeah. And keep in mind, most of the shows that we publish are published on our own service. And so in each of our markets, our audiences come from similar but sometimes slightly different places. If there is an entertainment personality that is really, really popular in Spain, and has brought a lot of our subscribers in, but there's not a lot of crossover with true crime, it could be probably, the easy thing to extrapolate was, well, you know, true crime doesn't work that well in Spain. But I think actually, it's, it's more of an artefact of the audience that we've built in all of our markets, which, again, is similar in terms of age and gender, but sometimes comes from different interests.
Matt
And I'm guessing there must be a lot of production companies listening to this thinking, well, this is great. I'm actually thinking about moving into another country with the show that I have, is that something that Podimo does, would it take up shows on behalf of other production companies and franchise them into other areas?
Jake
Yeah, we've done that bit. I mentioned, the partnership that we have with Wondery and Disney already. But we've done that with a number of independent creators as well with a podcast called Swindled and another one called Unresolved both from the States. And, yeah, a number more. So I think it's definitely an opportunity for creators with us, and also an opportunity for creators, with or without us. So to, to go to a commissioner in another market, you can say, look, I've got a podcast that has seen great success in my market. It's a format that's translatable. And, you know, you could potentially go the extra mile and say, and I've also actually packaged it with a very famous narrator who narrates another popular podcast in your market, or is it TV personality. That is, I think that's a really strong sell to a commissioner in the new market, greater degree of confidence that that show will work, given its success. And, you know, what are two other markets and less risk than creating something entirely new.
Matt
And do you have any benchmarks for Podimo personally about what kind of work you're willing to entertain, like, a minimum number of downloads or this kind of maximum complexity to a production that would would translate well, or you'd entertain for a show in another country?
Jake
Yeah, I'm not sure how much I want to open the hood on the Podimo engine. But what I will say is, we again, we'd have taken a very human approach to the way we select shows. And I think that's important, because listens is only one part of the story, it can be a really important part of the story. But every month, we have a forum with the heads of content from all of our markets, where my studio team brings some ideas and opportunities to that group. And it's almost a Euro-style in nature, where they're giving you a number of votes, and we get to discuss it. And there has been, you know, probably a few stories in the past where we thought it would work really well. But another market would say either Oh, no, this already really similar show in this market, or that is potentially culturally insensitive in this market. And we haven't decided to choose it for that reason. So that selection process, I think, is probably more valuable to our process than listens alone. However, translation is a pretty in depth process, we got into a bit of it, but there's the cost of it, but also the the human aspect of making sure that you're translating properly. What a previous listen number does is give us the confidence that we're you know, investing in the right places.
Rhianna
You mentioned earlier that I think the UK was the eighth country for you to translate, was it Murder in the North into? So how long was that expansion into the UK planned for? And why was the UK quite far down the list of countries to expand into you know, what, what was your reasoning behind the immediacy or the hierarchy of who was going to get the translations earlier?
Jake
Well, the UK hasn't launched yet, in the sense that like our app is not available in the UK yet. So that's the really short answer. We see an opportunity to launch our app in the UK. And in exploring that opportunity we'll release about 12 shows by July. And Murder in the North is one of them. That marks a bit of a different approach than we've taken in other markets where our app and original content come at the same time. In the UK, we're releasing a lot of shows before our app is available. But actually we did that with Murder in the North. In some of our other markets. We released it before we released Podimo like for example in the Netherlands and in Finland, as part of dipping our toes in the Dutch and Finnish waters and seeing how our shows do and then also building an audience for when we do launch that will become more subscribers. So Murder in the North is translated in the order that we've launched markets in which is the short of it.
Matt
How much harder is it to launch a show at the UK you probably have more experience as a company of understanding this than most others be because they're usually quite domestic publishers, but you guys really have got an overview of the whole of Europe. And we've always seen the UK as being quite competitive, and particularly with, you know, sort of a big established broadcast, like the BBC providing such a high quality turnover of content, it's always felt like quite an uphill battle for an independent sector. But how do you see it,
Jake
it's probably important to start with saying that I think there's a great opportunity in the UK in terms of the quality of creation in the in the country and our potential partners to make great work in terms of the number of listeners both by pure number compared to the size of other European markets, but also by percent of the population. And there's a really rich history of creating audio in the country. We've been creating podcasts and releasing podcasts in the UK in a really small way from about three years ago, and in a much bigger way now. And I think, you know, in that time, it's changed dramatically, it feels like the market is, well, there's just a lot of great works to be listened to. And in that that makes it you know, a lot more crowded, in terms of who's finding an audience who's being promoted on platforms. And also for listeners to choose, you know, there's only so much listening time in a day and how they're choosing the one that they they want to continue to listen to after week. And I think that's true. When we look at the UK compared to the rest of Europe as well. There are other really big markets in Europe, like Germany, for example, is the market that we're in, which is a larger population than the UK and, again, a really mature podcast market in terms of the number of creators and the investment from advertisers, etc. But when we look at smaller markets, you have to keep in mind that Podimo is its own platform, and it's a subscription service. So when we are live in those markets, we have a direct relationship to that audience. And in the markets where we are alive, especially the ones who've been around for for a while, like in Denmark, increasingly, a lot of the top podcasters in those markets are exclusively on Podimo now. So when we get to a degree of maturity in that sense, especially in a market that's a bit smaller than the UK, we are leaders in competition, it's a different picture. We're entering a new market, especially when like the UK. Yeah, it's it's really competitive. It's really crowded market. There's a lot of platforms that are bidding on the same talent and a lot of competition for, you know, listeners' ears.
Matt
I remember the launch of Luminary a few years ago, which ruffled a lot of feathers both in the UK and the US, which is a very loud, brash launch. And it pulled a lot of podcasts that were free to listen to behind a paywall very suddenly. Your approach feels a lot more softly, softly, if you will. So no app at the moment, everything's going free to RSS feeds. What's your thinking there? And did that experience help shape the way in which you built this strategy?
Jake
the launch of Podimo in our other markets probably shaped it a bit more than looking at what Luminary did. And I think we've learned a lot in the last three years. And that's part of the reason why I think you're referencing the UK specifically, in terms of the softness and not moving a bunch of podcasts to Podimo at once. It you know decision to not not do that in the UK. We have done that in other markets. But like, like you said it just a bit softer. And I think the aim is to make Podimo a place that you want to be, not a place that you kind of begrudgingly have to be if you want to continue to listen to your shows, of course, we're going to have some of that behaviour. And we mitigate it with free trials. And then then it becomes our job. That if you're coming into Podimo to try it out, because your favourite creator moved to Podimo, that you'll see lots and lots of other shows that are also interesting to you and be surprised and delighted and choose to stick around.
Rhianna
You've kind of worked with so many different partners already, like Mags Creative and Tortoise, I mean loads and loads. So why was it important for Podimo to partner with a range rather than kind of creating content just for one production company?
Jake
Yeah, so when we eventually do launch our app in the UK, it will be an app that should celebrate creators and production companies and you know, highlight all different types of voices and producers. So felt really important to us in the way that we message these shows that these are shows from Podimo and partner, not not just from Podimo as a way to celebrate the industry and the quality of production in the UK. So yeah, that's That's the short answer. And I think we are really, really proud to have worked with so many talented producers in the UK, and to have them embrace our narrative as well.
Matt
Well go then, you've got to run us through some of the The the 12 launches that you've had I mean, it would be churlish not to but at the end, I want you to tell me which is your favourite?
Jake
Yeah, so we've had,
Matt
I'm looking forward to this, by the way.
Jake
What, the favourite one?
Matt
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it!
Jake
In the process of describing all the shows, I'm going to, I'm gonna figure out how to not answer that question. But yeah, so. So we we've got a lot of shows that one of our shows is with, you mentioned Mags, so the show that we're making with Mags is called It Can't Just Be Me. It's a call in life advice show hosted by Anna Richardson. And it's had some really exciting guests and then most importantly, interesting and relatable dilemmas from the audience who's calling in and having their dilemma addressed and discussed. That show has done really, really well I think it's it's created a community of people feel like their issues are being listened to. Totally different, we've got a show called The List of Absolutely Everything That Might Kill You with Matt Edmondson and Adam Kay who explore the world's was extreme and mundane objects in a semi competitive format, where they are guessing or pitching, which of two objects is more deadly? On the scale of micro morts, which is an actual scale can look it up on Wikipedia, according to that scale, it is 10 times more deadly for a 90 year old man to get out of bed in the morning than a 20 year old man to spend a day in the British military. Wow.
Matt
As I understand it, Matt Edmondson is, was pretty much a hypochondriac. And of course, Adam Kay is a former doctor. So it's kind of quite an interesting dynamic to learn those facts in I think,
Jake
yeah, and really fun and funny as well and entertaining. And we are working with psychologist and author Richard Wiseman, on a show called Richard Wiseman's On Your Mind, where he and co host, Marnie Chesterton, who's also co host, a lot of BBC science shows attempt to answer lots of questions 1000 questions about the mind relating to laughter, sleep luck, ghosts, and our propensity to believe in them, and it's really fun format. Again, there's an aspect of calling in that show as well. But mostly it's, it's coming from Richard's mind. And yeah, we've got, we've got actually a few exciting shows coming out that we haven't announced yet that I'm really excited for. One is the first ever audio adaptation of a very long running British TV franchise. And I will just leave it at that.
Rhianna
Only Fools and Horses? That's very British. When I was looking on Apple podcasts for Podimo shows, and then it comes up with Who Robs A Banksy, It Can't Just Be Me, Cold Blood, Nordic true crime, and the Darkness Vaults. There. But it's only those four. But on Spotify, you can find all of them. So tell us about that. Is that deliberate?
Jake
If somebody from Apple is listening, please, could you help? No, that's not deliberate. We all of our shows are on all platforms of our UK shows are an all tech firms globally. One nuance that I could add is that we you know, in partnership with Apple are releasing a number of the episodes of those shows early and ad free. To to listeners who choose to subscribe to Podimo UK.
Matt
And is that something you've done in other countries? Or is that something that's unique to the UK? Since subscriptions launched?
Jake
It is actually yeah, we have that relationship with Apple across all of our markets. And almost all of our shows that exist on Podimo also exists on Apple for paying subscribers.
Matt
How does that work in terms of the money? Like does Apple take a bigger cut than the maintaining of the app? Or does it shake out by the same price? No matter where people choose to subscribe from which is your bet better, bigger cash cow,
Jake
it's much better for us if we can have a direct relationship to a listener that in our environment. And there's a lot of features that we think listeners love that we can use to engage listeners on a deeper level than if we're publishing shows off of Podimo, but in the decision to publish our shows on Apple for subscription. I think it is yeah, it was it was important for us to say, you know, you can listen to our shows everywhere. We just We believe we have a pay worthy offering. And if we can find partners who share that vision, then we should be publishing on their platforms.
Rhianna
There will be people listening to this who might not have considered translating their podcast or aren't sure about the pros and cons. So what do you think podcast companies are missing out on by not translating their podcasts?
Jake
Um, yeah, so probably an important thing to start with is that again, not all podcasts by nature are translatable. But if a production company does have a podcast that again is, is a format where scripting is kind of a core aspect to it, an interview may be secondary, then they are likely missing an opportunity to engage listeners who don't speak that language as a first language in the language that they would prefer to listen to that show, English tends to be much more understood across a much larger number of countries. But even so, like I said, on Podimo, we see 90 plus percent of all listens happening in that listeners native tongue, even if they, we can guess that they can speak English. But especially if that creator is from a market that maybe has a much smaller population of people who speak that language is a great opportunity for them to find a larger audience outside of their country. We've done that we've translated to a podcast that was originally born in Finland, and have been able to create a greater audience and revenue stream for that podcaster you're translating, and just a few more markets on Podimo than she was able to find in Finnish alone.
Matt
What is the next few months for Podimo UK? I know there was a bit of a switch of strategy a couple of months ago that was put out in a press release. What is the latest? And how are you proceeding?
Jake
Yeah, so in the UK, we are heads down and making the shows that we have launched and will launch a great success and finding an audience for those shows and continuing to grow them. What changes is purely the timeline against which we were planning on launching Podimo in the UK. And that is following unfortunate changes in the market that lots and lots of reasons. I think that probably most everyone is feeling. So it felt like the right thing to do was think about a later date for the launch of Podimo in the UK. But the the plan in the next few months remains the same in terms of the shows that we're we've already created and will release in the near future.
Matt
Yeah, I mean, I read the other week about Sony Entertainment, cutting back on narrative, documentary making and department but not pulling out entirely, just kind of slowing the rate of release and looking at doing more sort of not anthology series, at least, you're getting more than one series on the same feed rather than having lots of different feeds. Obviously, it's a little bit different for you, if you're if the build is to an app where everything is and the audience will be behind the paywall. But, you know, do you see that across the industry more widely than that, like there's a slowdown in the rate of production and the amount of releases this year compared to last year or the year before?
Jake
Yeah, and I think I mean, the industry is still growing, right? It's just the rate of growth is slowing. And I think because the rate of growth is slowing, it's causing companies like Podimo to to be appropriately cautious in the money that they're spending. That's of course, when there's less money to be spent, of course, effects rate of production, especially in the UK, where I would suggest it's a it's a, it's had a historically much more of a commissioner, producer relationship in terms of how shows get made than in some other markets where there are a lot more independent creators who are starting their shows as a passion project, and will do it whether or not there's money in it. And so So yeah, I would expect a slowdown. But again, I think it's on everyone in the industry to change that. Even if there's a decline in the economy, to show the people who have the money, whether it's brands or platforms, if you're a producer that you're making content and telling stories that are really valuable to them and valuable to spend money on and it comes to advertising, especially in the UK, advertisers need to be more invested in podcasts than they have been really compared to the especially the US but even some other European markets. There's a lot less being spent on advertisement from podcasts from brands in the UK than some other markets. And then also I think there is a need for diversification and revenue streams in podcasting. And the bet that Podimo has has placed this on subscription being one answer to them.
Matt
What would do you think change that rate of investment in advertising in the UK that we can learn from other countries?
Jake
Yeah, I mean, the UK starting at a slight disadvantage, because so much of the listening historically has happened on a platform and a network that doesn't have ads, the BBC. So I think that that's probably one reason why podcast advertising adoption has been slower than some other markets. But yeah, I think it could range from proliferation of great works coming from the UK, inside industry, marketing and evangelization of value of advertising on podcasts. A market that struggles with ad rates is that actually an opportunity for Podimo and subscription in general. I think that's where we've seen our greatest successes where there's been less investment from advertisers and from platforms is where there's the greatest need for a subscription. And I think that's actually why the UK is an interesting market, compared to the US who probably will eventually be everywhere. But I think the UK does have some of those challenges.
Rhianna
Did we ever get your favourite launch?
Matt
Well remembered, Rhianna. What's your personal favourite?
Jake
You know, it didn't You didn't get my favourite lines, you won't get my favourite launch. But the launch that I am most excited about recently, because it's our most recent launch, you've named already so limited series. It's different in format from anything else we've made, in the sense that it's only six episodes long. And it is a story from start to end. But it is the story beautifully told by Jake Warren and Message Heard of a Tiger King-esque character long and fun an interesting story short, ends up lifting a piece of art off of the street that's made by Banksy. And when that piece of art goes missing from his garden, it raises a lot of questions on a who stole it back. Can we get in touch with Banksy to see if it was him? But also who owns public art? Why has the population generally placed so much value on Banksy's work specifically, keeping him anonymous, even though a simple Google search will show basically exactly who he is.
Rhianna
Wait, what?
Jake
But don't do the Google search, listen to the show. But ya know, it's a great show. And I think there's some some really fun surprises and twists kind of towards the end of the series five and six. So you gotta gotta stick around.
Matt
That's great. And I'm sure Jake Warren friend of the show will be delighted to hear that. Who Robs A Banksy is your favourite podcast, if only by its...
Jake
Hey, I didn't say that! I love all my children equally.
Rhianna
Jake, thank you so much for talking to us. It's been a real pleasure. I feel like I've learned an awful lot. So thank you.
Jake
It's been it's been my absolute pleasure on being on the PodPod pod.
Matt
Yes. It'll catch on. Thanks so much. Thanks, Jake.
Rhianna
So we've just heard Jake, what were your highlights? I mean, you must know Podimo kind of pretty inside out by now with you're working with them. But was there any kind of surprises in what Jake was saying,
Matt
Oh, I mean, what was fascinating to me about that whole conversation was just how far they've come so quickly, you know, they started three or four years ago, they are in so many different territories now, they've only just really started to make headway in the UK this year, which is really telling about just how competitive that market is. But it feels like what they're doing well is definitely their IP shows, which you know, the tried and tested formats in their own like in previous countries. And then of course, the roll of the dice. As with with any company working this country is creating new hits. But of course, the advantage for Podimo is, you know, if it's a hit in this country, they've got one eye on the international markets, which is more than most people in this country do. So already, they're kind of ahead of the game in that respect.
Rhianna
And Reem, I know that you've written quite a few articles about Podimo in the past. So what did you really get out of this particular interview?
Reem
Well, I think first of all, because I've written about them a couple of times now, because I've had many expansion announcements in the beginning of this year. I think Podimo is one of the this podcast companies that I'm really excited about. And I'm really excited for their future because they not only just are launching in the UK, they've also done it by partnering with many other podcast companies, and kind of doing these big collaborations, some of them being multi podcast collaborations, some of them being one off collaborations. But it's really nice to see them lifting up the voices of these other podcasts, companies, and Podimo as well, which he also mentioned during the episode. I am very excited for the future of Podimo here. And I think just translating podcasts is very interesting, because it kind of just seems obvious in terms of like, why if companies already have a podcast that's so successful, like why just not expand it and reach a whole global audience. And it's so easy to do when you already have that script, especially the scripted ones, like when you already have that to just change it to a different language and try and get another global audience. But it's interesting to see them do it successfully. But also him saying that it doesn't work with every podcast, and that's something that you have to be careful about. Because some things don't actually translate well and it might fail and you also need all of those resources to get it done. And if you fail, doing that, that's going to be a lot worse. But yeah, I think translating podcasts is really interesting.
Rhianna
Thank you so much. And if you want to hear more from Jake Chudnow he's going to be at the Podcast Show this Thursday, talking more about translating podcasts and one of the panels. So do watch out for that. And if you are at the Podcast Show, please come and say hello. We would love to speak to you. The PodPod pod team are going to be very, very, very keen to meet new people have a chat about podcasts, and where better to do that than at the Podcast Show. Thanks so much, Reem and Matt and thank you for listening. You can find out so much more on podpod.com As we just alluded to, Reem has got plenty of articles in there for you to sink your teeth into. And you can follow us on social at podpodofficial. Thanks again to Jake Chudnow from Podimo. The podcast is produced by Emma Corsham for Haymarket Business Media, and I'm your host Rihanna Dhiillon, and I'll see you at the Podcast Show. And also next week.
