This is an automatically generated transcript of the PodPod episode ‘Patreon: How to build a sustainable subscription model’. We apologise for any errors in spelling and grammar.
Rhianna Dhillon
Hello and welcome to PodPod, the podcast all about podcasting for all you podcasters. I'm Rhinna Dhillon and I am joined this week by Reem Makari, PodPod journalist and researcher, and Adam Shepherd, editor of PodPod. Hello to you both. Thank you so much for coming.
Adam Shepherd
Hello
Reem Makari
Hi
Rhianna
It's so nice to see you, Reem you've been away. It's lovely to have you back, where have you been?
Reem
I've been in Abu Dhabi for the past few weeks. And now I'm back in grey, cold, London. Yeah, but it's nice to be back on PodPod.
Rhianna
It's always lovely to have you. Adam, how are you? What have you been up to?
Adam
Well, I have been going over the entries for this year's PodPod Faces to Watch scheme, which is the first year we've launched it, which is essentially our effort to celebrate the rising stars within the podcasting industry. So we will be announcing the winners of that ahead of the Podcast Show in a couple of months. But yeah, keep your eyes peeled for more details on that. That should be very exciting.
Rhianna
Nice, very exciting. Cool. So today, we are joined by Diona DaCosta, who works for Patreon. She supports Patreon's clients as they build their brands and their relationships with followers. And I just think this is a really cool gap because we talk a lot on the podcast about monetizing, of course some podcasters do their job because they love it. But others also want to know how to make a career out of it, or at least a little bit of money. You know, recently we talked to Cinemile, who use their Patreon, just pretty much to cover their costs, and then they give any extra money to charity, which I thought was a really lovely way of looking at it.
Adam
So one of the things I like about Patreon is that it's a really nice way for podcasters, who maybe aren't making a kind of sustainable revenue stream from advertising and partnerships. It allows them to cover their costs and make podcasting kind of financially viable, through a kind of smaller, more limited audience. But one that's quite highly engaged, which I quite like. And sustainability in podcasting, in terms of financial sustainability, is something that has been in the news this week. And last week, because Spreaker has just launched a free tier for its hosting service, which is a really interesting development, there have been sort of free hosting options for podcasters that don't want to shell out for a paid podcast hosting plan previously, but this is kind of fairly major player in the hosting space. And there don't seem to be any kind of obvious strings attached to their free offering, which, you know, hopefully should make it a lot more accessible for starter podcasters to get into it.
Rhianna
Reem, do you think that's going to be actually accessible? Do you think people are going to take advantage of this? It's not such a well known household name as Patreon.
Reem
I think, yeah, I mean, I think any kind of website or platform that's going to offer something free to kind of help out more independent creators is something that people are going to be looking into when they're first starting or when they're first starting to take podcasting seriously. I think it's great that people have different options, because Patreon is a really, really good subscription service, but it might not be the best for everyone. So it's nice that they can have other things to look at. And, you know, the best way to make money is to have like 500 different revenue streams. And then you'll start to see income, even if you don't burn out completely, but it's fine.
Rhianna
I do think we need to do a whole episode on podcast burnout. I do think that's a really important thing to cover. Maybe we'll do that at some point.
Reem
It'll just be the three of us sleeping on the podcast. This week, we have nothing to say.
Rhianna
Hopefully, that'll never happen. There'll always be something for us to focus on in the podcast. As I said, Diona DaCosta is our guest this week. So let's get into our interview with me and Adam and we were talking about how you build a podcast subscription package. Diona DaCosta, welcome to PodPod.
Diona DaCosta
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Rhianna
Hi, welcome. This, I believe, despite working in podcasts, is your first ever podcast recording on mic.
Diona
I'm very excited. I am happy to be on PodPod for my first one. I think this will be a really fun time.
Rhianna
So, you're from Patreon, which we've talked about so much actually over the course of PodPod's still fairly new history, but it does come up time and time. So this is just brilliant to be able to talk to somebody actually from Patreon.
Diona
Yes, I am on the creator partnerships team at Patreon. So basically, we work directly with creators to tailor their experience of launching on the platform, making sure that they're set up for success with benefit ideas, structuring pricing, marketing strategies, all of that good stuff, we really act as kind of the human arm within the Patreon model to make sure that creators have someone to talk to and make sure that there's a point person for their questions.
Rhianna
So that's really interesting. So how do you sort of delineate that if you're coming in as a new podcast? You know, they want to work with you, and they have no idea where to start? Do you sort of research them first? Do you have a meeting with them first? How does it all work?
Diona
Yes, we have a meeting with them, it kind of goes both ways. So some creators reach out to work with us. On the opposite end, we reach out to work with some creators on that end, as well. So basically, we'll have an initial meeting just to chat through getting to know each other's goals. I like to really dive into what is that end goal for each podcaster? Are they looking to build a greater sense of community? Are they looking to have a home for different types of content that they really weren't sure would fit on another platform? We really dive into those details first, before figuring out what structuring will look like and seeing if membership is the right fit for them.
Rhianna
How big an audience does somebody have to help before you might reach out to them in the first instance?
Diona
Yeah, it really depends on the vertical, obviously, specifically, for podcasts, I have worked with a range of creators ranging from emerging, maybe it's a brand new IP in terms of a podcast, or they've been around for quite some time, I would say a lot of podcasters do reach out when they're first starting because they're familiar with Patreon. But timing is key. When it comes to membership, we really want to make sure that this is the best fit for them. The worst advice I could ever give to creators is, yeah, let's do it right now. And you're not ready to go. And you really have no idea what you're doing. So that's exactly where we come in to really guide them in the right direction, answer their questions and make sure that they're introducing a subscription based model when the timing is right for them.
Adam
So speaking of which, then for podcasters, who haven't offered subscriptions before, how should they approach building their first package?
Diona
Yeah, I would really lean into two sides of this. So the community that they're building and the exclusive content that they'd like to offer, obviously, with subscriptions, bonus content is really the key to success. But at the end of the day, if you don't have that community, you're really not going to have anyone to listen to that bonus content. So I always say building up your community, on your other platforms, really having that foundation is the best start to thinking about a subscription based model, then you want to really dive into Okay, are we going to leave our mics on for 30 extra minutes from the podcast? Are fans asking for us to cover a specific topic that really doesn't fit into the flow of our day to day podcast? And how can we really introduce a new area for fans to really communicate with us in a meaningful way. So those are all really great pillars that you really want to consider when thinking about membership. And then putting those together in a structure that makes sense, you don't want to bite off more than you can chew, it's much easier to add than it is to take away. So starting with a smaller foundation and building upon that is definitely key with membership.
Rhianna
If you're kind of a first time podcaster and you want to do bonus episodes, would you recommend doing kind of more of the same but just extra that people pay extra for? Or do you recommend doing something different that they wouldn't be able to get on the normal feed?
Diona
I think for a first time podcaster, sticking to what you know is definitely going to be a great foundation for you as you evolve as a podcast. And as you create that more intimate relationship with your fans, you're able to experiment a little bit more with what they'd like to see. I think it's different if you have your audience members constantly in your DM saying, hey, I want to hear you talk about this. And it just doesn't make sense, then creating something new definitely fits in. But starting with what you know, and what your bread and butter is, is definitely the best approach when you're first getting started.
Adam
One of the points that other people we've spoken to have raised in terms of subscriptions. And bonus content in particular is the risk of sort of over-promising and kind of accidentally making a rod for your own back in terms of how much content you're putting out there. Beyond kind of fully fledged bonus episodes if you're like what are some very low intensity added content that podcasters can offer. For example, David Law, who is the co-host of the tennis podcast a couple of weeks ago was telling us about pet sponsorships that they do where they'll have somebody's pet for a certain fee as the mascot for that episode.
Diona
I love that. I love that so much. Yes, there's definitely a lot of things that you can offer outside of bonus episodes, leaning into that community piece. Maybe you're creating a server or a chat community on Discord to really communicate with your fans on a regular cadence. Maybe it's a monthly or weekly live stream for you to actually be engaging in real time with your fans and answering their questions. Something that I always recommend is voting power as well. That's a feature that we have on Patreon to poll your audience. What is it that they want to see? What is it that has brought them here and really had them engaging with you on a regular basis? So all of those things, we're really getting to interact and make it a really exclusive community that makes the most sense, but is never short of ideas. I think that you really want to create something that's tailored to you and your specific audience. It's definitely not a one size fits all, no two creators are the same. So no two memberships should ever be the same as well.
Rhianna
Where do you stand on the idea of sort of like physical add ons, because my husband promised to send a sticker to every initial patron subscriber. And then of course, you know, that took up so much of his time, and you know, money, sending out stamps, and all of that kind of stuff. So it's quite a lot to take on quite early on. So are there any kind of pitfalls that you would avoid for newer podcasters?
Diona
Yeah, I definitely think merch is something that you can add on down the line. And that's also a way that you can make it an interactive experience, you may be brand new, and not have a designed logo or any specific quotes from the podcast that makes sense on merchandise. And that's where you can have that interactive experience with fans to help them shape the direction that you go in with membership. Maybe in six months' time or a year's time, they want an exclusive hat or T-shirt, and they'll really be able to help design what that will look like. And that is even more of a benefit of being a member on Patreon or elsewhere, it just makes the most sense for them to have that power, while also having the creative freedom as the podcast host to invent something that makes the most sense for them.
Rhianna
Do you notice sort of like seasonal trends, when it comes to either bonus content or merchandise or whatever, you know, you might not be buying the hoodies in the height of summer or whatever.
Diona
Yeah, I actually just recently had a podcast do a 12 Days of Giveaways around the holidays. So that made a lot of sense for them that they were able to create prizes for each day of December. And their fans had to do a trivia challenge or something of that nature in order to win that prize. And their grand prize for the final day was actually being able to attend their 10th anniversary live show in New York City and flying them out and meeting them and really having that sense of community. So there's definitely flexibility seasonally. I think that in summer, as well as people getting outside having meetups in real life, it is always a great idea in a post COVID world, being able to engage with your audience in real life and getting back to those roots.
Rhianna
What do you mean by meeting up with them? And that's something that they can offer on Patreon?
Diona
Exactly, exactly. So it could be exclusive just for their Patreon members. The good thing about Patreon is that you get the data of where your fans are located. So you can say okay, I'm in New York, I know that I have 20 patrons here, let me put a call to action on Patreon and say, Hey, I'm going to be here on this date. From this time, I want to do a meet up just with my Patreon members, and they'll have that really intimate exclusive In real lifetime.
Adam
That's a lovely thing. Mike from the Evolution of Horror podcast was telling me that two of his friends have actually gotten married after meeting at one of his Patreon meetups.
Rhianna
Wow. That's my husband, by the way, Mike. That was really weird.. You talk about him like some random man.
Adam
Friend of the podcast.
Rhianna
Yeah, very cute. And you're right, that sense of community really does come through. But I think with podcasts, generally right? What I would love to drill down into is, people can now make a living off Patreon, off their podcasts. So, you know, it still may be slightly more unusual, but it definitely happens. Do you have any sort of insight into why audiences are happy to pay for content? Like podcasts when they do get some free when they do have television when they do have free radio, that sort of thing?
Diona
Yeah, I think there's really two sides of every audience. It's like a 50/50 split. If someone is a superfan versus a casual listener, the casual listener really is more enticed by that bonus content by that sense of community by the things that they're actually receiving for their dollar versus your superfans who are going to ride with you regardless of what you're doing. They're just happy to be a part of any community that has to do with the podcast. So it really is a 50/50 split. I think finding the balance between those two offerings of community and exclusive content is so key here because that audience is typically split.
Adam
This might be a little bit of a tricky question to answer. It's sort of how long is a piece of string to a certain extent, but what in your estimation is the kind of average patron revenue that podcasters can expect in terms of sort of broad, ballpark figures, I'm sure most people will be familiar with the sort of ridiculous top end of the spectrum where you've got podcasts like Chapo Trap House, which makes something crazy, like 150 grand per month, from its Patreon, which is absolutely crazy. But what is the sort of more realistic side of what that actually looks like in practice?
Diona
Yeah, there's definitely different buckets of creators, the average pledge on Patreon is typically around $12 per member. Obviously, knowing each membership is structured very differently, you're gonna see a wide range of revenue streams, I would say, that's why it's important to diversify your revenue streams over the course of time, whether it be through membership, through merchandise through ad revenue, all of those pillars for a podcast, are the key to success and seeing sustainability and longevity, for the course of the podcast. Membership is just one aspect in terms of the revenue stream, you really don't want to discount any of those other streams that are coming in to make this a sustainable business for podcasters. So you've got membership, membership, ad revenue, merchandise, ticket sales, any of those things contributing to it.
Rhianna
Is there like a maximum number of tiers or a minimum number of tiers that they need to have?
Diona
There is no minimum or maximum, I would say the sweet spot that I've seen personally is between one to three tiers. Obviously, as I mentioned before, it's much easier to add than it is to take away. I have podcasters that have a single $5 tier that are just as successful as a podcaster that has three tiers at 5, 10, and 25. So it really does depend on the audience, you really want to dive into the demographic and the age range. Obviously, if some podcaster has a large audience of fans who are 13 to 17, that pricing structure in that revenue is going to look very different than someone that has a lot of fans that are in their 20s, and their 30s and their 40s. So you really want to make sure that you're tapping into your audience, when you're setting that structuring for yourself through subscriptions.
Adam
It's also worth bearing in mind that presumably, the more tiers you add, the more bits of additional content you'll need to find to, you know, justify those tiers.
Diona
Exactly, you really want to have that balance at the end of the day, it makes a lot more sense to have a stronger base, have a tear, and have a lot of value at one set price point, then to spread yourself too thin, because then you're not only having to think about who gets what it's also creating that extra content, and it's a little bit more of a stressor, when you have a lot more tiers to actually manage your membership over the course of time.
Rhianna
I noticed on your website that you have or not always but sometimes you have like the most popular tier does that in itself kind of make people go oh, well, if that's the most popular I should go for that one, then is that a good way of getting people in.
Diona
Definitely, highlighting the tier that you think is the most successful, the most popular feature really is based on how many patrons are actually included in that tier versus the others. It definitely is a driver when it comes to new members signing up. That is what most people are there for. And that's what they're going to actually select when landing on someone's Patreon page.
Rhianna
And for your own, you know, if somebody is looking to have a tier on Patreon themselves, you kind of have a founders tier. And now there's light pro premium. So can you tell us about the idea of the founders' tiers and then talk us through the others?
Diona
Yeah, so our founder's membership is really for our legacy creators that have been a part of Patreon. Since really our inception, I would say the highest percentage are actually on our Pro Plan at 8%. So that is the pricing plan that you're able to get access to doing tier structuring, get the data that you're getting email addresses, physical addresses, and all of that good stuff. To be able to really project what your business will look like.
Rhianna
What's included in the premium one, is that sort of for like bigger companies?
Diona
Yes. So the premium is actually something that you apply to be a part of. It is a 12% platform fee. But you basically get access to a little bit more data and insights. You get a dedicated partner manager from our creators that SAS team will be able to go and dive into the data and analytics with you and help create growth strategies. You're also able to unlock some of our premium features like Team accounts, if you're a larger podcast, and you have a producer and an editor and a manager who all need access to uploading content on Patreon. Those are the types of features that are only available on our premium plan.
Adam
Okay, that makes sense. That's something I actually wanted to touch on a little bit. Patreon, I think, is commonly seen as a platform that's primarily geared towards individual creators and individual teams. If you like, Do you have a large amount of large existing companies on the platform as well? And can you share a bit more about how any of those are using Patreon?
Diona
I would say that when we're looking at larger networks, for lack of a better word, launching multiple IPs on Patreon, usually each podcast or show will have their own Patreon membership. But we'll work with the same larger subset of the company to actually get those executed. One example that I have of that is the human content team has a lot of podcasts, we just recently launched Knock, Knock, Hi with them on Patreon. Yes, and there's quite a few of their other creators that we will be working to launch on Patreon as well in the coming months. But that's just a key example of someone who has a larger network and will be doing multiple different Patreon accounts. Very nice at the same point of contact for each one.
Rhianna
Do you find that as Patreon grows, that you're getting sort of more and more competitors, because they're seeing how successful you guys are doing? They want to follow suit?
Diona
Yeah, I would say many companies are trying to really take a piece of the pie of the Creator economy at this point in time. Personally, I think Patreon is the leading factor and leading company in this industry. We really are one of the few companies that our Creator first set our core to were founded by a Creator. At the end of the day, we're creating our product for creators, we're not a brand as most companies would say like you have these bigger market companies who are really serving themselves at the end of the day in every facet of our company is really built for each creator, every product feature, every team member, you'll find a lot of people that work at Patreon are creators themselves. So we really have our stamp on what the industry changes and market changes are happening on a day to day basis to be able to help serve creators at the end of the day.
Adam
So from a platform perspective, we've talked a bit about bonus content already. But can you talk us through how Patreon supports subscriber only bonus content? On a technical level, particularly for podcasts?
Diona
Yes. So obviously, we have a lot of data and analytics on the back end to really help with growth, something that I do for a lot of my creators, is have regular growth check ins with them to say, okay, most of your paid traffic is coming from Instagram, or it's coming from directly from the podcast, or it's coming from people typing in the podcast name on Google. Where can we really shift the marketing strategy to target those people that are finding you through these platforms? Should we put all of our eggs in one basket on one platform to help see that conversion? Where are the areas that we can improve engagement on other platforms to help funnel them into the membership at the end of the day. So that's something that we really do internally on the Creator partnerships team to really help creators grow over the course of time. It's different for every creator. I think that because Patreon isn't specifically a platform that's only for podcasters. We really serve a lot of verticals, whether it be video, visual art, all of those good things, we want to make sure that we're tailoring our advice and our guidance based on which type of creator that we're working with. I think that that's something that's ever evolving, as well, as we're building out new features of the product. We're really taking into consideration, what are those things that are going to help each creator be able to improve their business model as a whole? What are the insights that they're looking for to be able to engage with their audience a little bit closer? And how can we help that as we evolve as a company as well?
Adam
And for anyone that's not familiar, if a podcaster is putting out subscriber only bonus episodes, how do their subscribers actually access those because they don't show up in the regular podcast feed right?
Diona
So, they'll have a private RSS link. So there's a few different ways you could listen directly on the Patreon app. You can go to our website or patreon.com website and sign into your account and engage with the content that way for podcasters you are able to enable a private RSS feed, so it will still show up in their typical podcast apps, whether it be Apple podcasts, or Spotify, etc. And it will show up as a separate feed within their app for that bonus content. So everything is in one place. Yeah, I would say that that's typically the flow of things.
Rhianna
When I was kind of scrolling through various Patreon people earlier content creators, I noticed that they had like, different ways of sort of like bringing in their audience and you know, different ways of saying, Hello, I think is Red Handed had a little video being like, Hi, this is who we are, you know, it was great, really engaging. Others was just, you know, writing some had pictures, is there something that you would recommend adding to like a Patreon homepage to sort of, maybe take it to the next level, you know, people are just almost like Doom scrolling, or whatever to like, really make it stand out.
Diona
Definitely. I think there's a really big difference between a launch announcement and an intro video that's living on your Patreon page that's evergreen, your launch announcement, which is what lives on social media platforms to help draw people in should be attention grabbing, it should really be something that as you're scrolling, Doom scrolling, for lack of a better term, through Instagram, through Twitter, you stop and you listen to it. Most people, what is the typical attention span and out three seconds while scrolling in order to actually be engaged in content, you really want to make sure within those first three seconds, you're grabbing them in, maybe it's something in the caption that's grabbing them in, I would say that that's different for every creator, how you're engaging with your audience on a regular day to day cadence. You don't want to reinvent the wheel, when it comes to your launch announcement. And you really want to make sure that you're staying true to your voice. Versus on your Patreon page, when someone actually clicks that link and they land on your page, you'll have an intro video that's really diving into the experience that they're hoping to bring to their members. What are they actually going to be receiving? Yes, it's a live stream. But what type of live stream? Is it to get ready with me? Are you going to be able to ask me questions, are you going to be able to come on screen with me, that's where you really are able to dive a little bit deeper into the details. In your own voice. Most fans are used to hearing your voice, they're used to seeing your face, they really want to have that intimate experience when landing on your Patreon Page versus just reading the text of saying, Okay, I'm gonna get one bonus episode per month, or I'm gonna get one live stream and a discount code off of tickets, they really want to make sure that they have that vibe of the experience that they're going to be receiving. And presumably, you wouldn't, you know, regulate content in a podcast, but you might on the Patreon page, how does that work? Yes, so you're definitely going to want to quantify what you're actually offering as to not foster creator burnout, you want to make sure that you're offering things that are manageable for your schedule, at the end of the day, you're still doing all of your other content, you're still having this full time business. And membership really is an added bonus to that. So you really want to make sure that you're not biting off more than you can chew, you really are creating something that's sustainable for you as a creator. I would say not creating a business that sacrifices your mental health is really, really key. When thinking about membership. You want to make sure that you're supporting yourself, even though you're creating for your fans at the end of the day as well.
Rhianna
And you kind of were talking about how you have a lot of creative people within Patreon and kind of content creators. I noticed that you had a Patreon live show recently last year. So can you tell us about that in the US? Is that something that you might bring to other countries like the UK?
Diona
Yeah, we actually did activate with a lot of creators of colour last year by way of our pull up accelerator programme. So that is a programme that we developed, I believe in 2020 that supports directly creators of colour. We're backing them with some funding, and we're really elevating their message as creators as a whole. We just recently did a pull up event last week with one of the podcasters that I worked with. The Know For Sure podcast they actually launched last year and did their first live show last week, after being a year it's their anniversary show. The podcast has only been around for a year. This was their first time being with their fans in real life. And we were able to help support that function with some exclusive merchandise that was just for their Patreon members and really making sure that they knew that we support them as a company for their first live show. There are a lot of different programmes within Patreon that we're helping to accelerate creators pull up being probably at the forefront here with creators of colour. We want to make sure that everyone feels supported on Patreon no matter what type of creator they are just getting started and having a new IP and being a new creator. It can be overwhelming and Patreon is really here to make that a little bit less overwhelming and have a helping hand and be a guiding light while they navigate that new process.
Rhianna
Are there plans to bring it out of the US?
Diona
Definitely, definitely, we have creators on Patreon that are global. Everyone is really excited to partner with creators over the course of time in different countries in different cities, and really make sure that we're bringing this around the world, looking at the revenue side of things.
Adam
On the subject of conversion, what kind of size of audience does a podcast need to have off Patreon? Before they can start a Patreon that generates a viable revenue stream, you know, enough to cover their costs, and you know, enough to make a living, essentially, on a sort of average level?
Diona
Yeah, I think a few factors come into play here and its download numbers and social media following download numbers are not the end all be all, and social followers are not the end all be all, when it comes to this, you really want to make sure that your audience is engaged, because at the end of the day, that community is who is going to pay for membership. So if you have a really strong community, it may be 100 people, but that will show you meaningful revenue versus you having a million followers who actually don't care about your content, they're not actually engaging in your content to be able to say, Okay, I'm gonna give you $5 per month to unlock bonus content when I'm not actually even engaging with your on paywalls content. How can podcasters test the waters? If you like, before they jump into a fully fledged subscription plan? Are there any sort of benchmarks that they can look for? Definitely asking their fans if this is something that they would even like, is also a first step. I think that a lot of creators will say, Okay, well, I don't really know that my audience wants this and they never actually asked them. So that is a strategy that we've seen, do really well for Patreon creators to say, okay, like, I'm thinking about this, what do you think there are specific product features that will be coming down the line within Patreon that will help creators really gauge interest on how many fans are actually interested in in coming in and joining their membership?
Adam
Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Diona
I can't actually. Yeah, but stay tuned. It's all coming very soon.
Adam
So in terms of growing the subscriber number, and directing people through to Patreon from other platforms, should podcasters who offer subscriptions, be approaching marketing those subscriptions in a different way to marketing the show itself as a kind of standalone entity?
Diona
Yes, I think that launching membership is very different than launching just the general podcast. At the end of the day, you really do want to keep things in your own voice and make sure that it's staying true to who you are as a creator as a podcaster. But membership is something that's new for a lot of audience members. They don't know what they don't know. And you need to educate them on that. You may as a creator really understand the value of membership and know how much work it actually takes to put into this bonus content, and even the regular content. So educating your audience and saying, Hey, I do this podcast for you weekly, or bi weekly. This takes a lot of work. I want to make sure that I'm putting forth content that you're excited about. What does that look like for you? What are you excited to see? Then working backwards and saying, Okay, now I'm going to craft my launch messaging for membership, to say, I'm giving you exactly what you asked for. You said you wanted bonus episodes, you said you wanted mailbag episodes, you said you want to ask me questions, here it is all in one place for you at a set price point. This way fans are really able to say okay, like I'm excited about joining this membership, because it's everything that I've been looking for. It's everything that I've been asking for. When you're thinking about that marketing strategy, you really want to make sure that you're going forth and targeting the fans that have been riding with you for a really long time. There's always room to capture new audience members. But I think really focusing on the people that have been there throughout the course of the podcast, that makes a lot more sense to capture those audience members.
Rhianna
Is there any such thing as sort of like oversaturation of you know, what you offer or what you promise or just like too much content that you might be putting out there that your subscribers actually don't want or can't kind of keep up with?
Diona
Yeah, definitely. I think that there have been many instances where creators will say, if I'm going to ask my fans for money, then I'm going to need to put out a lot, a lot a lot a lot of content And that's not always necessarily the case, there have been creators that have definitely done that strategy and needed to scale back and scale down their membership to be maybe less tears or less content. And that's something that they've worked through with their fans, what are the things that you actually enjoy consuming on Patreon or elsewhere, you really want to make sure that they're happy and you're happy creator, burnout is real across the board, regardless of if it's behind the paywall or not. You really want to make sure that you're taking care of yourself, even when doing content.
Rhianna
And we sort of touched upon this earlier, but is there sort of something that you've seen somebody offer that is like the most creative thing that is so unusual that you haven't really seen elsewhere?
Diona
Yeah, I actually had a creator. He's a food creator. And he ended up getting snacks from all around the globe of places that he's travelled to. And he'll do an exclusive quarterly snack box for his very high premium tier that he has limited to a certain amount of people. So it's first come first serve. If you've signed up for that high price tier, you were the only ones to have access. And maybe he'll open it up to a few more people down the line. But now they have snack boxes that are sent to them quarterly with snacks that they wouldn't be able to purchase in their regular stores. So that's definitely something that I found really exciting and cool. Definitely something very different. But exciting at the same time.
Rhianna
I love that.
Diona
Yeah, yeah. And I think to go back to your earlier questions in terms of marketing, they see him consuming these crazy snacks on social media, and they're like, Wow, I wish that I can find that. And now by becoming a Patreon member, they're able to actually live the experience that they're consuming with the content.
Rhianna
Great idea. So sort of on that then, just before we wrap up, do you have a favourite Patreon that you're subscribed to?
Diona
Do I have a favourite patreon account? Honestly, I work with so many Patreon creators that it's hard to choose just one. And I feel like a lot of them probably listen to this podcast, so I shouldn't choose just one. There are definitely some that I am excited to subscribe to, I would say my favourite launches that I've had over the course of the past year I will state those I have worked with The Know For Sure podcast I mentioned earlier, Girls Next Level was a really exciting podcast that I worked with Zane and Heath Unfiltered a very exciting podcast that I worked with, and The Read who just celebrated their 10th anniversary last week, and I was able to actually attend the show and congratulate them and really come full circle with the work that we've done together. So I would say that those are some of my favourite Patreon creators from the past year but nice. My number one spot is wide open. There's definitely room.
Rhianna
Are there any UK ones in there?
Diona
There are a few UK creators who I absolutely want to have on Patreon that aren't quite on yet. So I would say my UK spot is definitely open. And hopefully we'll be able to work together over the course of the next year to get some of those creators on the platform. But yeah, we'll keep an eye out. There are definitely a few UK creators that I have my eye on.
Rhianna
How was your experience of being on a podcast, your first podcast unbelievably?
Diona
It has been extremely fun. You two are amazing. I can't wait to do it. Again. We should just do this every week. Maybe I'm the new co-host of PodPod.
Rhianna
Thank you so much for joining us. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you.
Diona
Thank you so much for having me.
Rhianna
Thank you so much to Diona DaCosta. That was a really interesting chat. Reem, what stood out for you from that that you weren't really aware of before?
Reem
One of the standout points that you made was the fact that one of the tiered subscription offers that some podcasters make is like meetups in person is something that you could offer on Patreon. But that's really interesting that like you, they can actually go and interact with the fans and get to introduce themselves. So I thought that was really fun. And there was also a snack box on Patreon. Offering snack boxes, which I would love to receive to be honest.
Rhianna
I think it's a great idea. It's such a great idea. I do love the idea of thinking outside the box literally in that way by feeding your listeners, no one is going to say no to that. What about you Adam?
Adam
So I really enjoyed that. One of the things that kind of jumped out at me is the fact that she emphasised the need to diversify your revenue streams and that you should be using subscriptions as well as kind of advertising and partnerships and merchandise and all these other individual revenue channels together which is kind of quite quiet is surprising from a company that is kind of largely based around membership options. I thought that was quite, quite refreshing really.
Rhianna
And I know we couldn't quite get Diona to talk about the podcasts that she's subscribed to. But what about you guys? What are you paid up to?
Reem
I am subscribed to one podcast that I have mentioned on this podcast before, which is called Seek Treatment. I've been subscribed to them since a few months ago. They just offer bonus episodes, but really, it's just to kind of support them and like to pay when I can. And it doesn't have to be always consistent. But just when I was a bit of extra money, I'm like, Okay, I listened to a few bonus episodes from them this month, and they can get an extra, what, like three, four pounds.
Rhianna
Yeah, that's lovely. That's the reason we do it. What about you, Adam?
Adam
So I'm actually not subscribed to any podcasts as of yet. Because there's just too many.
Rhianna
There's too many to choose from. Yeah, to be fair, I've only just signed up to the No Such Thing As a Fish Club because it is one of my favourites and it's only like 29 quid a year. And I think again, because I love them so much, I want to support them more than anything else. It's not so much about the content. But I hope you've learned a lot about Patreon and about subscribing packages. I feel like hopefully there are some really good kinds of paint by numbers of what you can do to earn a bit of money with your podcast. So that is it for today's podcast, all about subscriptions and creative partnerships and how to engage with your audience and snack boxes. Thank you so much to Diona DaCosta for coming on to talk all about Patreon. Thank you to Reem Makari and Adam Shepherd for joining me on today's recording. You can find out so much more on PodPod.com. Reem has actually written an article which speaks to Acast and talks about Apple Podcast subscriptions as well. You can find that on our website. Do sign up to all of our daily email bulletins and follow us on social @podpodofficial and I really would love to hear what you guys think and what you want us to cover. And if there's anything that you think we're missing, because we're doing this for you guys, rate us and subscribe if you would like to, you would like to. This is my hypnotism bit, you would like to. The podcast is produced by Emma Corsham for Haymarket Business Media, and I'm your host Rhianna Dhillon. Thanks so much. I'll see you next week.
