This is an automatically-generated transcript of the PodPod episode ‘My Dad Wrote A Porno: Knowing the right time to end your podcast’. We apologise for any errors in spelling and grammar.
Rhianna Dhillon
Hello and welcome to PodPod. I'm Rhianna Dhillon and I am joined this week by journalist and PodPod reporter Reem Makari and PodPod editor Adam Shepherd. Hi, both. Thank you so much for coming back on. You must have enjoyed it last week to put yourself through it, yet again.
Reem Makari
We are always excited to see you.
Rhianna
We've got a really, really fun group of people lined up to chat to today, we're going to be talking to Jamie Morton, Alice Levine, and James Cooper. And you know those names very, very well because you must have listened to them. Over the past eight years of them doing my Dad Wrote A Porno. But they came on essentially to do a very, very special announcement. I think we were the first podcast they spoke to about this. They're ending my Dad Wrote A Porno is coming to an end which just feels like such a, I don't know it feels like the end genuinely of an era I feel like when people kind of look back at this time of podcasting there will be before porno and after porno
Reem
Who knew people would have such an emotional attachment to an erotica novel.
Rhianna
For me, it's so nostalgic because I you know, it's kind of seen me through so many of my years of living in London, I don't know it kind of sums up all my commutes being on the tube. I remember where I was listening to certain episodes. It's such a weird thing, I guess, because it was so huge. And it was so funny. And it got to that point, didn't it where you'd be on the tube and someone else would be laughing and you would be laughing and you'd both be listening to an episode of My Dad Wrote A Porno. That just doesn't happen.
Adam Shepherd
It does it. And it was a real watershed moment for podcasting. Particularly, you know, it wasn't the first podcast by any stretch of the imagination. But it was the first podcast that really felt like it had cut through and just reached this not even cult status, but was just genuinely, enormously popular. I mean, you know, my Dad Wrote A Porno has been a household name for easily, what, four or five years now? At least,
Rhianna
I think it was even longer. You know, it was kind of huge. From the moment it launched pretty much I remember, it was such a word of mouth podcast. Everyone was saying have you heard
Adam
Wow. It might even still be
Rhianna
I mean, if you kind of think about everything they've covered, they've had 430 million plus downloads globally. They've had worldwide tours sell out. So you know, I remember them talking about doing stuff at the Sydney Opera House, which is crazy. It's not something that you expect for podcasting. It's that idea of podcasts were being taken seriously. They were in the same category as music concerts or stand up gigs. And it kind of brought podcasting a bit more into that level of conversation, I think, or am I overblowing this?
Adam
I don't think you are at all I think it was a real, genuine smash it that elevated the entire medium of podcasting to that that kind of level of respectability, where you could start having serious conversations about booking tours for podcasts specifically, rather than just you know, little one off gigs.
Rhianna
And on a personal note, it was lovely to speak to Alice Levine because we used to work together at Radio One and she very sweetly helped me get dressed in the girls toilets just before the radio. So My Dad Wrote A Porno, as we said, is coming to an end, they release in three final episodes, one on the 28th of November, one on the fifth of December and one on the 12th of December, with a final interview with Rocky Flintstone writer of Belinda Blinked himself. It's gonna be so exciting to actually hear him on the podcast for the first time, big reveal. So here our main room talking to Jamie Morton, Alice Levine and James Cooper. Thank you so much for joining us all
Jamie
Thanks for having us It's very rare to get all of us on one pod together. It's like seeing all five Spice Girls Well, apart from apart from our own Yeah, we're very selective over what other pods we do as the three just because of schedules and stuff. So this is, this is fun for us.
Rhianna
We are very, very grateful and there is a reason for you guys are coming together. Please could you tell us what you have just announced a Spice
Alice
Spice Girls is a good analogy, Jamie.
James
Who's Geri?
Jamie
Basically, we're breaking up. No, yes. My Dad Wrote A Porno is coming to an end. Unfortunately, this Christmas, but it is isn't all sad. You know, there's no hideous backstory to dig. We just feel like it's it's time. You know, Belinda has been on many adventures. We've been on the mall with her. And we think it's time to kind of let her go and, and pursue other other other sexual exploits. Less of us prying.
Rhianna
We're going to try and find some really deep rooted issues as to why this is coming to an end.
Alice
I hope so. Yeah, dig
Rhianna
Tell us. How did you come to that decision? First of all, was it a sort of one of you sat down? This is it? Or did you all come to that decision together?
James
We had a discussion back in May I think that like I think there was a sense between all of us that it just felt like the right time, like creatively, and that we've done so much with the brand, it was hard to know where else like we could take it basically. So yeah, we kind of had a sit down in May. And we can't, all at the same time kind of said the same thing and agreed that it was just the right time. I mean, don't get me wrong, Rocky's written 50 books. So that continues without us. But like the last book ended with spoiler alert, but Belinda got a new job, basically, so was going on to kind of a new chapter in her life. So that's kind of synced in with us going into a new chapter in our life. So yeah, it just felt like everything kind of came together at the right time.
Alice
And I think it's fair to say after every book we're like, is this they're doing it because we always sort of have a check in after everyone and go, is it still really fun? Do we still really love doing it? And it's like, James says, Is there a place to take it, and I think we had like, two out of those three, and we were like, oh, it's still really fun. But maybe this is like a really nice, natural point. And we've all been joking that like all of the shows that are kind of lauded for their like abstemious, SNESs if that's the word for doing like two series, or three series, and we're like eight years deep, baby. More wise more.
Rhianna
We'll definitely come back to you know what's happened in those eight years. But I guess this is a time for you all to reflect on what's happened in those eight years, what's kind of evolved. So Jamie, can you kind of go back to like the very beginning of my Dad Wrote A Porno. And just maybe think about how the very first recording compares to the very last recording,
Jamie
Interestingly, and this is shameful to admit not much different. Same microphones that we actually bought them fresh. For the first recording, they're very much battered, I was just having to hold hers. Because it's basically on its last leg, literally. But no, I think what we always kind of enjoyed about our show was that it did feel like we were just three mates around the kitchen table. And that kind of became our trademark sound. If you like we never did one in the studio, it was always very kind of homemade in that respect. And so even though the show has grown exponentially, we never wanted to kind of lose that field. So we always made sure that we kept recording it in the kitchen, and having drinks and tea and snacks. So actually, in terms of the technical environment in which we record, nothing much has really changed. I mean, we do switch off the fridge now. Which we didn't used to do. I mean, the first episode is such a terrible sound. But interestingly, the first episode was only ever supposed to be a pilot. It was never meant to be released, actually.
James
And you can tell and you and you can tell. Yeah. Because we will just say that a bit like, you know, is this just funny for us that you need to know, my dad to find it funny? Is it just our friendship group. So there was a bit of exploration in terms of the concept that we thought, well, let's just record one, see how it feels. And then, as I was editing, it kind of became abundantly clear that you couldn't recapture this. This kind of feeling of Alison, James, hearing this material for the first time on mic. So I was like, Guys, it sounds like shit, but we're gonna have to use it. I'm sorry.
Rhianna
It's so different. We interviewed Nicole Jackson last week, who was the head of audio at The Guardian, and they they do between 10 and 20, maybe even 30 pilots before they put anything else. Yeah. Wow. Which is
Alice
bloody hell.
Jamie
We did one and we did put it out.
Reem
How do you feel the podcast changed us people? Because you mentioned that didn't change the actual format of the show, but that it's impact you personally? Oh,
Jamie
that's a big question.
Alice
Well, it's nearly a decade of our lives that we've been doing it so in that sense, you know, it's been very different. Finding and it's been a constant, I think, you know, with lots of other stuff changing, it's been the thing that's always been there for such a long time. And we used to do it in the beginning, after work, you know, we used to all do our separate jobs, and then eight o'clock meet at someone's house. And if it was James's yet to come fed, and if it was a mind, you'd get some food. And I suppose, in that sense, it's changed, you know, it's become, at different times, like our main, you know, sole focus has taken us around the world. And other times, it's been the thing where we're like, oh, we know, we're gonna have this like, amazing sort of 13 weeks of coming, and just like laughing our heads off. So it's hard to say if it's changes, but I feel like it's been really, yeah, I just feel like it's been quite defining.
James
I think it's made us business people, like, it's certainly for me, it's definitely run a business. And like in the early days, when it kind of, because we started it, and it took off quite quickly. And we were quite kind of on the backfoot and quite reactive to like opportunities were coming our way. And we were reacting to them some really exciting things. And like, the other two are much better at being more critical of opposite. I'll be like, Yeah, anything. But like, Jamie and Alice are very good at kind of like, why are we doing this? What's in it for us, blah, blah, blah. And you know, as time has gone on, we've learned, I've learned about tax, I've learned a lot about touring, I've learned a lot about all sorts of like IP law and things like that. So we've certainly learned a lot in that respect as it's gone on. And we're in a place now where we can really kind of strategize with the brand and think about what we're doing next. And that's been like, for me, that's been one of the most kind of fun parts of it, all that kind of stuff that happens behind the scenes. It's been really fun to be totally in control of a brand and take it where you want to take it.
Rhianna
So you've kind of talked about how almost this has become this franchise, right? And you have done so many other things. You've done live shows, and you've done an HBO comedy special, which is incredible. So for you what have been the highlights when you look back and think about everything that you've achieved over those eight years,
Alice
we were talking the other day, we did a book, and it had the essence of the podcast about it. Because we were all just sat around the table. We were all writing separate chapters and then passing them around to edit and sort of shouting things out and kind of go does this make sense? Is this funny? And it was a real like workshopping environment. And that's probably our like, least high profile iteration of the project. But I really loved how that came about. Because it was one of those things where it didn't involve loads of other people. It was the three of us our laptops in the way that the podcast is. So I really enjoyed that. And we did it in what sector?
Jamie
Oh my God, it was so stressful. Yeah. We were recording Season Two right in the book, and had our normal jobs and something else is going on. But kind of what what it was very Yeah, it was it was frantic. But I think that kind of like our said, added to the kind of excitement of it. It was a kind of a bit of a mad haze. As we were doing that book. It was fun.
James
One of the maddest things for me is it's a bit random and weird, but basically lust. Can I say this story?
Alice
I don't know what the story is spilled.
James
It's the
Rhianna
you can't say it, James.
Jamie
Just say it. James just so
James
we got an email last December. I think it was from NASA. NASA has like this mental health department for their astronauts. And basically they got in touch they one of their astronauts on the International Space Station wanted to speak to us to help with their mental health.
Rhianna
Oh, my goodness.
James
So we ended up having a team's call with someone on the International Space Station, which was not such turns out she's up there. She's listening to my dad report. Well,
Alice
she's back now.
Jamie
She is back now. We actually met her in Oh, did you America? Yeah, it was amazing. But you know, she could have asked for anyone. She could have asked for Obama. You could have asked for Beyonce she asked for it was very strange. You're like You sure did did everyone else say though? Giving us a tour of the space station was insane and then seeing through her window and looking it was amazing.
Rhianna
Was that aspect something that you hadn't necessarily realised that making people laugh is something that you just you can't really replicate? It is an incredible skill was that something that you thought about much beforehand when you were just making each other laugh
James
what's mad to me is like comedies kind of notoriously something that doesn't really travel very well it's a very kind of local format. So the idea that this has kind of gone we've been able to tool this and take around the world with a comedy show is is mad but I think it's something to do with more than just the comedy in some respects it's I think it's to do with like Jamie's relationship with its dad our dynamic like, like the community for You love it. I thought all feeds into it. But it is crazy that's gone around the world in that way.
Reem
There was a review that said that your show was a cultural phenomenon and that it revolutionised podcasting. What kind of impact do you think your show has had on other podcasts? Since you've been in the industry for such a long time?
Jamie
I hope a positive one. I mean, it's actually because when we started, it was kind of the the, the beginning of this second wave of the podcast renascence, right. It was cereal, it was us. And we kind of reminisce about how no one really knew what a podcast was, it was like, you have to physically get people's phone and point out the podcast app on their phones. So to see the the whole medium kind of evolved into what it's become, which is this incredible machine. Now, you know, every brands got a podcast, every TV show is got a podcast, every celebrities got a podcast, whether they should have won or not. And it does really feel like it's the sort of medium that's become respected. And if we've had a little part of being people's gateway into the space, and that's amazing, because it really wasn't like that for a very long time. Actually,
Rhianna
was there a sort of community between you and the other podcasters? You know, like, the guilty feminists, for example, is one that was having that quite meteoric rise. And the same way that you were, is that something that kind of bonded, you all
Alice
Certainly No Such Thing As A Fish. Like they felt like they were coming up at the same time. And Dan Treiber was very complimentary and sort of generous with his time. He was one of our first guests. They felt like they were in parallel to us, you know, building there. So I mean, they probably started a bit before us, did they? Yeah,
Jamie
they were the year before us, I think. And what's nice is that they become actually friends that I'm godfather to one of Dan's kids now. And we met through podcasting. It's crazy. It's crazy, actually. Because as I said, you know, when you come up together, you're kind of there weren't many people that we could relate to and be like, Oh, we've got this issue. Are you having that? And how do you accurately you know, record download numbers? And have you got a sponsorship yet, because there wasn't even sponsorship, when we started, it was very much like Lisa mattresses and Squarespace and that was, so yeah,
Alice
particularly proper independence, right, because they were people sort of did all of the work, you know, they met they made it with their bare hands. Whereas obviously, there were lots of people after us who were part of a bigger machine, so it didn't really feel that comparable. So they didn't really encounter the same hurdles as as we were dealing with. So yeah, Jamie's right to even be able to troubleshoot with with someone was good.
Jamie
And it was funny, because I was at the British Podcast Awards earlier on this year, and being carried out Lloyd who does grief cast who just sat at the back being like, God, it's changed. You felt like such old grandparents and podcasts and you felt so out of touch, you're like, God, it's great, because and it's amazing that it's kind of evolved so much, but it really has changed a lot. Actually.
Reem
Do you feel excited about the future of podcasting? And what do you expect to happen in the next few years, since it's evolving very fast now,
Jamie
definitely very excited about it, I think it's great. And I think now that there's actually budgets in it, for the first time, people can actually make money out of being truly creative, which is what was always, you know, that was the Holy Grail. I mean, we didn't even really think about monetization when we started because it just wasn't a thing that was even an option to us. But now, you know, people can be creative on their own merits, they can, as Alex says, Make it themselves and get financially rewarded for that. I think that's a massive change. And it's really rare in all of media that you ever get that sort of control, and be able to own your IP and get a paycheck. I think that makes it a really exciting space for young people. In particular, I think
Alice
it's mad at somebody from radio to see how the radio podcast relationship has changed, you know, podcasts always being the slightly niche fringe cousin, to linear radio. And now, as Jamie says, There are budgets, you know, big talent, as we know, we're getting kind of poached from radio to go and do podcasts. But also the numbers are there, you know, that there's just huge, huge audiences who are like gobbling up this content. And you know, we've always been quite different in that we've done seasons, we've never been kind of always on show. But I know from my consumption of what I listened to, like, I would just listen to the stuff that I like, every day, you know, I would listen to more and more and more of it. So it's kind of exciting, that those big shows are there as a kind of, I guess, companion or alternative to radio, but also that those like little or niche shows can also exist in that ecosystem. As everything grows, there's more opportunity to for everything, and I remember people telling us that as as we were starting they were like, This sounds like a list trust ism, but like the pie, the pie is growing, whatever the raises, but like, you know, the whole, the whole world is bigger. The whole podcast world is bigger, and that's, you know, you kind of don't want to be one of five shows. Do you want there to be a whole world of stuff and people pick you in Amongst that you don't want to do just to just to be like that. That's the one that comes on your phone. So I'll listen to that
Jamie
YouTube album.
Alice
Is that YouTube?
Rhianna
Oh my goodness, when you think about straddling both radio and podcasting, which is Alex, what you do and have done, then how do you feel about the way that one is evolving incredibly fast? Because it's so much younger? And there's so much more room? And then how do you think that radio is holding up and comparison live radio,
Alice
I mean, I still love live radio, I've always got such a soft spot for it. And I really love that feeling of like, when it works, that amazing appointment to listen, everyone's listening to the same thing, particularly like during lockdown, we saw it kind of like race to the fore again, that everyone was just loving, hearing, Greg, you know, at the same time, and everyone was listening to that same thing at 830. And it was really reassuring and, and really fun. So I think that's a really hard thing to replicate in podcasts. It's a sort of different thing altogether, really. But I have always made and listened to both. So I would really hate for one to disappear. I don't I don't think Podcasts can fill the gap of radio. And there's something incredibly reassuring about radio being the way that it is. But as somebody who makes stuff and has ideas, and for like, you know, newer people and younger people, it's hard to get stuff made at, you know, a mainstream radio station or to get a show on a mainstream radio station. So if you've got a great idea like we did eight years ago, and you've got the time and the inclination to do it, then podcasting is where you can do that, you know, we wouldn't have got this commissioned partly because of the name, partly because the content, partly because of the myriad things really. So I mean, that's great, isn't it? If you're if you're creative, then that's great.
Jamie
And I think it is also important to kind of remember that podcasting and radio are very different, you know, they aren't the same, just because they're both audio people kind of lumped them together. I don't know there's there is crossover, of course. But I think when podcasting is done, right, it's feels very different to when radio's done, right. And I think having those those two things is really important.
Reem
You've mentioned before that your show is done by seasons, and every season covers a new book from the series. Do you think that since you were doing the podcast while lush, the series was still being written, do you think Rocky's writing has evolved due to the impact of your podcast,
James
he'd written four before we even started the podcast. So we knew he had four. And then the two subsequent ones we did after that were written so early in the podcast days that it was another fun kind of angle to call him out on those moments where it felt like he was trying to write to the audience like, it didn't happen a great deal, to be fair, but when it did, it just added another kind of thing for us to talk about. So it doesn't seem that way. And certainly, like when we talked to him, we actually spoke to him the other day, as far as he's concerned, this, there's so much we missed, we still don't get it as a three, like, as far as he's concerned, he's operating on another plane. And we're just playing catch up. That's kind of how he sees it.
Jamie
Because every time that he tried to play into what he thought people wanted, he got it completely wrong. So it's like, he doesn't really know what people like about the show anyway, which is kind of the charm. Really, yeah.
Rhianna
I've kind of mentioned the live shows that you did, which had been so incredibly successful, but how did they help you to evolve the structure of the podcast? Because you're getting that immediate feedback, you're getting the laughs And you even did a write your own ending thing with the live shows as well. So can you talk about the influence of those on the podcast?
Jamie
It's a good question. I don't think anyone's ever asked us that
James
we always wanted the live show to be a separate kind of entity. We never thought of the live show as something that would go in the podcast feed. So the live shows were kind of structured, you know, with that in mind, yeah. The most recent show we did was, we called it a pick your porno. And various points throughout the show the audience through various mechanisms decided where the story went next, which was really fun went really well. But as far as how it's like influenced the podcast, I'm not sure because because we keep them quite separate.
Alice
I think the podcast is actually from that pilot that wasn't a pilot, you know, the format has stayed pretty steady. Like, other than introducing we introduced footnotes episodes where we realised there was this kind of coterie of high profile people who were obsessed with the books and wants to come and talk about them. So we introduced the secondary sort of analysis, interview episodes if you like, but yeah, I really don't think that the life has been something that has impacted that all it
Jamie
has really does is kind of able to show us our audience in a way that you never can when you're making a podcast and like to James's point earlier, you know, we travelled the world. There was a kind of naivety at the beginning. We didn't really realise that it was a global format. I don't know why we didn't but we just didn't really think of it in that way. So suddenly, if you're at the Sydney Opera House or Radio City Music Hall, you're like, oh, wow, there are 1000s of people all over the world, listening to this show. And that didn't change the way that we made the show. But it certainly made us feel a little bit more like there was a community there, willing as on and wanting to kind of keep hearing the stories of Belinda.
Reem
I'm just curious, what did the audience look like? Because you mentioned the astronaut listening to your podcast. Now I'm a bit confused about the listeners.
Alice
Usually, both exclusively astronauts.
James
It's a real mix. I mean, this younger older we do tend to skew female slightly, I think, like what's like 5545 female. And we've always said that our audience like a lot of them come in cosplay. A lot of them come dressed up as characters in the book locations from the book, sentences from the book, like they really go to town. And they're super imaginative. But yeah, like there's a real sense of our audience that they love it in the same way that people love, like a Marvel movie or something like that. They theorise about the books, they they know them inside out, they dress up for shows, or they talk about them on Reddit and social media, like they sign up, they built a real community outside of the podcast. And you can see a lot of that like real engagement and real kind of enthusiasm when we do a live show.
Rhianna
So what do you think is going to happen when they finding out that you're not going to be making any more often is what's going to happen to that community? Do you think it's going to carry on? And will it exist without the regular podcast?
Jamie
I hope so. I mean, I think they've built I mean, we've have all built together, but they really have kept this community alive, you know, we do disappear for big chunks of time, you know, like, eight, nine months at a time, you know, we're not on air so and they keep their community going. I think that's what's been so lovely is that we've, we've kind of said, Hey, here's a group of people that loved one thing. Now it's kind of yours, and they can do what they want with it. And Dan's writing is not going to stop and he's gonna keep writing and creating stuff. And also, what's another great thing about podcasting is it's always there, you know, you can go back and listen to it, we get I think my dad crunches the numbers a lot. And he told me the other day that we get 10,000 brand new listeners a day to my Dad Wrote A Porno who listened to the first episode of every single day. So it's constantly being discovered by new people, that community is constantly growing, and they're just the most incredibly supportive community of each other. They And as James says, they're so creative, and they're so brilliant and, and they've been so respectful not just to us, but to my dad, you know, my dad's anonymous, no one's ever tried to find out who he is that you know, they're just a lovely, lovely group of people. So I think the blinkers will will live live on and prosper I hope
Rhianna
I just have an image of an army of toffee apple choose
James
one thing we're also looking at is you know, like yes, we're kind of ending new original content but how can we continue the brand by reversion in content and you know, kind of how could we kind of take this into the future and and you know, still serve the feed the podcast feed in some way and still kind of celebrate my Dad Wrote A Porno even though we won't be making any new content anymore. I think the moment the last episode goes out, we're not closing the door on the brand. We'd like to keep it alive.
Reem
Would you let another group of hosts take over the show? Or would you do a reunion episode and the future of the series continues on?
Jamie
I don't think we'd ever have replacements. That would be madness. We aren't the sugar babes or the Spice Girls. We've made that clear. But I do think that you know, James has said the other day he was like, you know, never say never and you know, not wanting to kind of get ahead of our skis. But you know, this isn't the end of the Belinda blinked. My Dad Wrote A Porno story so like, you know, who knows what the future is got in store.
Rhianna
You often tease casting a Belinda blinked. Right. That's something new Amy your gantries Come on? And they talk about that?
Alice
That's hearsay.
Rhianna
It's not something this is possibly the end of the podcast but if it's not the end of the franchise's that mean that we're going to see some visuals of Belinda at owl
Alice
is such a good idea. I think that's something worth worth putting a pin in.
James
We we are having conversations let's put it that way just with each other just because this visual. Well, yeah, what like one of the reasons like we're kind of moving into a new phase with it and we're kind of having conversations and there's some like exciting things happening in the background. Nothing unfortunately, we actually were really hoping it was stuff we could talk about in this period. but nothing concrete yet. But we can we can say,
Reem
Can we say Belinda blinks will be the new 50 Shades of Grey? You can
Rhianna
we can talk about something that is concrete, which is the kind of specials that you've got coming up, which are the ones that are going to end the series entirely. So it's going to end with an interview with Rocky, right? Yeah,
Jamie
very, very excited.
Rhianna
So was that a kind of like, full circle moment for you guys?
Jamie
I think so. I mean, when we kind of began talking about ending the podcast, it was like, Well, how can we end it? And really, there was only one guest that made any real sense to get on to kind of say goodbye, and it is getting dad on mic for the very first time ever, which is amazing, which is really cool. Yeah. And to kind of give him his right to reply in a way and say, right, what do you think about us? We've had eight years, you know, gently ribbing, you.
James
You've got 30 minutes.
Jamie
Yeah, and we actually recorded it the other day, we recorded it last week. And it was brilliant. And it was so nice for me actually, to kind of share the microphone with my dad. And for the listeners as well to kind of hear how much he loves this brand as well, and how much because I think there's there is perhaps a misconception that he's not on board or that when we're like mean to him. It couldn't be further from the truth. My dad loves it. He loves James analysis. He loves the fact that we read them constantly. And to kind of talk about that on the show. And talk about his journey and why he wrote these books and what he's learned and what he's experienced, was just really fun, wasn't it guys? It was a completely different
Alice
he was so hyped to do it as well. Like, he never seen him in that mood like he was. He's usually the life and soul of the party, isn't he like we've talked a lot about how he's a complete wind up merchant. He's always full of beans. There was a certain kind of like, I won't say like studious nurse, but like he really was like, I've got to do this properly. Like this is really important. And it was just very sweet and touching. And I think because we knew as well, that was the last thing that we would record. It just had a real I don't know, just a really special feeling around it.
Rhianna
poignancy. Yeah. Did you shed tears over there? Kind of last few recordings?
Jamie
I think I was the only one that did. Right. Let's finish this. It's like, Oh, my God, guys. I think because it's so personal to me in a way that it can never be for Alice and James, you know, this is my life. It's my family. It's, it's not my identity. But it's you know, it's kind of wrapped up in, in a lot of kind of complicated things for me. So I think having dad opposite me and being able to kind of just say to him, how proud I am of him was just a really special moment for me.
Reem
What does the future look like for you in terms of podcasting? Are you guys going to work on something together again? Or are you going your separate ways? No.
Jamie
We haven't actually talked about it. I mean, Alex is so busy doing a million amazing things that to get her back to do anything would be
Alice
expensive. I just can't afford it. I hate to say it, but it would be it would it would be a disservice to me and to my mortgage for it to be any other way. We've always made stuff together. That's kind of the the basis of how we met and like what we've always loved doing together. Like some people love going to the pub, some people I've gotten to the football and we've always loved writing things, filming things, recording things. So it would be strange for us not to do that in some form. And there's exciting stuff afoot. So yeah, I mean, as Jamie said, we've sort of been focusing on just in focusing on finishing this bit first, if that's quite right. Yeah, as you said earlier, what happens to the audience, you know, like, where do they go and it kind of feels like the temptation is to just jump straight back into something and kind of harness, harness that and give them something else. But I think we always think for quite a long time about stuff that we do. We're a bit more tortoise than hare. So yeah, let's see.
Reem
Now that six seasons have passed with Belinda blink. What has been your favourite chapter?
Jamie
Oh, favourite chapter. I mean, I don't like any of them. But it is my father's pornography. So I might. I might pass that one to the gang. What do you two think
James
the one that always jumps out for me? And I forget the name of the chapter. But basically, Belinda goes to Belgium and goes to this private member's club and participates in this kind of very strange sex game. And while they're getting undressed, all everyone's clothes who are taking part without their consent are taken out of the room and sent to local charity shops for no reason, what like it's never explained. But literally they take them off and they're whisked away, put in a van and sent to like Oxfam, how generous, very generous. That's so nice.
Jamie
If you had a private member's club, you can afford to let your clothes get to
Alice
charity. And on they stood on chairs at the time, they stood
James
on chairs, so they can't quite get to their clothes to get them back. It's the most kind of quintessentially bizarre, rocky chapters. And I always revisit it because it's so funny. That is a
Alice
very good choice. And one of mine is the I think it's the second or third chapter of the first book, because it was the first time that rocky got completely sidetracked by business. And by the logistics of sort of like Taxi journey lengths. And like how if you're too close to Heathrow, like you know, the minimum fare and all of that absolutely boring shit. And it was, I feel like it's a really important part of like, the show should be called My Dad Wrote A Porno and business manual as we know it was that was Lucky's aim, and, and dream. And I feel like that's the chapter you guys remember which one it is.
Jamie
The regional sales meeting is that two or
Alice
333? And yeah, I just feel like it's we just died, like we just couldn't breathe. And just whenever he goes into anything that is like pure business, he gets really, really distracted. And she gets really, I just love those moments.
James
Every every chapter is just this kind of escalating. That's what I love about like listening to it. It's just like, there are funny magnets of the star. But just as the chapter goes on, by the end, you're like, What on earth is he talking about? And this just grows and grows.
Jamie
And every chapter has something, it's like, every single one that we've ever read, has got some bit of gold in there. I mean, a lot of drops, but a few little nuggets of gold,
Alice
and a real sort of childlike instinct to get it all wrapped up by the end, you know, kind of put their clothes back on. And then they went back to the meeting room, and then they had the meeting. It's like, everything's sort of expedited at the end. It's like, Ah, you need an ending? Oh,
James
we always said if there was something in that, because obviously we're like, we get what we're given. Like, there's no, we hear it on Mike and we get what we're given. We always say there's a bit that has us just like falling about and gets me like cackling then we feel like it's it's a great chapter. And that always kind of seems to end up happening.
Rhianna
We talking about kind of franchising and all the different areas. You've done the live shows and the book, of course, and then the HBO comedy special. I mean, how on earth did that happen? And what was that? Like? How did that sort of? I didn't know galvanise you. It was
Jamie
an interesting one. It happened because HBO came to one of our shows in New York, in 2018. And they kind of I guess, like talent scouted it, I don't know, and saw it and kind of said, we want to do this. They were they were making quite a lot of podcast adaptations. At that time, there was two Dope Queens pod save America and ours. And we were all given these comedy specials, which is really exciting. But the interesting thing about that was that we learned so much from saying yes to another TV project way earlier, in the UK, that didn't really work. And we actually walked walked away from it didn't walk about it. We just felt like it didn't really capture the tone of the podcast. And we I think actually ultimately, what it was was I think we were a little bit too hesitant to really be involved properly, and to put our stamp on it so that when it came to HBO happening, or the potential of it happening, we were very clear that we wanted to make it our own way. And I know HBO is famous for this, but they were so supportive of us just to be like, Look, here's your our, do what you want with it. And they really let us have the freedom to kind of make the show that we wanted to make. So I think that was quite an interesting thing for us to sort of learn through the process to kind of know when something doesn't quite feel right. And then when something does, that's when you do that next step, we've always said that whatever iteration of the podcast, whether it be a book, or a live show, or a TV show, has to have a reason for being beyond just, hey, I want to make a TV show, it has to be doing something that the podcast isn't catering to or isn't being done by any other part of the brand. So with obviously TV, it's be able to visualise it for the first time and get it to a huge global audience and someone like HBO was, I mean, mad we were on after Game of Thrones, it was insane.
Rhianna
What impact did that have on you guys? You know, in terms of like the creativity, but also audiences?
Jamie
I mean, people come up to me all the time and say that, particularly in America, which makes sense that they discovered the pockets through the TV show, which was a great gateway again, for people who maybe weren't that ofay with podcasting, and it kind of, in fact, I was talking to somebody in Chicago and they watched the HBO special and then they got into podcasting and now they work in podcasting and they'd never heard of podcasting before. See Doing the HBO special. So I think finding new audiences that then bring themselves to podcasting and discover a whole other medium is really cool.
Alice
We've always thought of ourselves as the sort of DIY underdogs, you know, people have much bigger machines behind them than us. And then when you do something like that, it kind of gives you a polish and a sort of legitimacy, which, I mean, we'd been doing it for a long time by that point, but it sort of puts you in a different category. And I think we all find that quite weird. Because, you know, we think of ourselves as a little show, really, because we are compared to things that have big broadcasters behind them. And, and like Jamie said earlier, you know, with, we're on the same pile of cookbooks around the same kitchen tables, if not in the same flats, but you know, you know, a lot of the stuff is the same. So I think it did kind of give it like kudos. Obviously, having HBO attached to anything sort of changes the trajectory of things, and it probably has opened doors longer term for anything that we might one day do with my direct porno. Cool. Can somebody else interrupt good?
Rhianna
Just really quickly, then, you kind of talking about yourselves as being a really small show still. And you must be the only people in the world to think that right? Because everybody else kind of cites my Dad Wrote A Porno as one of the biggest, most successful kind of, if you think of podcasting, your name is synonymous with podcasting. Now, does that feel odd to you are you still kind of playing catch up with your audience there,
James
we're all control freaks for a start. So like, we always wanted to kind of keep it in house. And one of the joys of it for us, like, don't get me wrong, but the success of it has been out of this world and more than we could have ever dreamed of. But I think what keeps us going with it, it's that kind of creative drive that that want to, to make something and to make something great. And to make something that you know, has an audience, no matter kind of how big or small, we just get so excited about coming up with ideas and like getting together to plan the live show or, you know, even thinking about this finale and how we were going to do it and how we're going to like, it's all just like, really fun stuff to us, though. I think that's what is our kind of driving force behind it ultimately.
Jamie
And also, I think it's important to kind of trust the show that you're making, if that makes sense. And I think you never want the success of anything to impact on the actual product that you're creating. Because then it changes what made it special to begin with. So I think we've been very careful to not ever let what's happening externally come back into the podcast, if that makes any sort of sense. I think it was really important to us that we kept it feeling like my Dad Wrote A Porno, it's never become, you know, too cool for school, or, you know, I think that's important, because that's the show that got you to where it was, you know, to begin with.
Alice
And ultimately, it's kind of what we were making. I mean, it's a sort of version of what we were making when we did student television together. So in a way, like that hasn't changed, either. You know, it's like a small group of people making something with their fingerprints all over it. And to James's point about, you know, the stuff that we find fun, like, whenever we do videos to launch a series, which, you know, are often from James's creative head, or Jamie's, you know, Jamie's brain. Like, they just remind me of that stuff we did a student's not in the quality, but in the fact that like, that's what we love to doing, and there's no, there's no real reason to have an elaborate video trailer film trailer for the start of the podcast series, but because that's what we love to do. It feels very honest and true to what we've built. So yeah, I don't think you would do all of those little things along the way. If it wasn't a kind of labour of love, absolutely not the quality, not the quality,
Rhianna
not the quantity. Before we wrap up, I'd love to know if you could kind of go back and speak to the three of you doing the first ever pilot podcast or would you tell yourselves about podcasting that would kind of really helped you out?
James
Upgrade your technical capabilities
Rhianna
to record on GarageBand Yeah,
James
this is an industry kind of podcast right? This is focused on people who know what they're doing in podcasting.
Rhianna
I mean, it's yeah people who maybe have at least at least a step on the ladder Yeah,
James
so they might be outraged to hear that yes, we record on GarageBand use the second mics we've been using for eight years Alice's stand is one key my wires like not working very well.
Alice
I'd recommend a co one you pros my dad He's fabulous. I'll give him
Jamie
a there's a weird nostalgia to a mic so I think like they've recorded every single part of my Dad Wrote A Porno even if they were asked is basically broken, but like we we kind of wanted to finish To show with these mics, it would have felt weird to not even that's a stupid. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's like magic in these mics, guys.
Alice
I think we, I mean, this is sort of advice. But also, I mean, we did this to a certain extent, one of the things that we did at the beginning that I feel like we hadn't done on previous projects, was really kind of commit and not just kind of go, oh, let's just chuck something out there. And if people find it, they find it. And I think a large part of that was down to James's sort of production head, which was like, We need a logo, we need music, we need the website, we need, like, handles on all social media, we need all of that in place before we even get going. And we need a sort of plan of attack. If we think this is a good enough idea to make it, then we think it's a good enough idea to like, actually put our weight behind it. And I think it's sometimes tempting to kind of like soft launch things, particularly because, for me personally, anyway, like, I always have so much doubt around stuff that I've made. So it's sort of tempting to just be like, it's there under a rock if you want to look at it, but whereas with this, like, we were like, No, we have to shout about it. And like, if we don't believe in it, then no one's gonna listen to it. And I think we learned that from doing lots of different things that we maybe were a bit more coy about.
Jamie
And I think just to kind of piggyback on that point, just kind of related piggyback just on the business side, as well just be really kind of get all of that stuff. Sorted upfront, who owns what of the IP? Do you own the IP? First of all, I mean, make sure you own the IP, what are the split, you know, set up a company, just really put everything in place. And if nothing happens, nothing happens, and that's fine. But if something does happen, and it becomes big, getting all of that stuff, sorted, early doors, just, it just saves a load of hassle later on
Alice
is a statement of intent as well, isn't it? Yeah,
Rhianna
that's really helpful advice, actually. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been a real pleasure to talk to you all. What a lovely way to wrap up Belinda blinked. Oh, really good.
Alice
Fun. Thank you so much.
Rhianna
Thank you so much to the My Dad Wrote A Porno gang. That was a really lovely interview. They are always so much fun.
Reem
There's such fun people and they have such a good friendship as well. You can clearly see it from the way they speak with each other.
Adam
Yeah, even just listening to them kind of going back and forth. The chemistry is so so obvious that they have and I think that's really what makes the podcast work so well, is just that they're such big fans of each other.
Rhianna
Yeah. And you can tell that their friendship goes back so far, I thought it was really interesting. They were saying about how they still think of their podcasts as this really small, you know, indie thing that they just do around their kitchen table, because that is what they do. And it is interesting how we would we do think of it as this huge phenomenon because it is, but that they have to kind of keep grounding themselves in what made them so big in the first place, which was just listening in to mates in their flat, having a laugh. And when you know, that can go horribly wrong. I've heard so many podcasts where people think that that is a winning kind of chemistry thing. And it just for them, it really was it really worked. And I don't know what makes that stand out.
Adam
I think the crucial difference is you have to be funny people for that to work.
Reem
I think that's what kept the authenticity in the show as well, because they also mentioned in the interview, the fact that the guests that they've had on were fans of the show as well, when something didn't work for them, they walked out of a project like they really chose to stay as authentic as possible to what the show was about. And I think that had to do with also them being humble about it and not realising how big the fed the moon. I feel like we should mention the astronaut.
Adam
Oh, my God is the astronaut. Yes, that was fabulous.
Rhianna
So obviously, you know, talking about the live shows and all of the things that make the podcast what it is outside of the podcast was really interesting. But the one thing that I think we all kind of gasped out was the request to speak to a real live astronaut from NASA. Yeah,
Adam
I mean, you were talking earlier about them still thinking of themselves as a kind of little indie outfit. How could you possibly give yourself as an MD out there when NASA astronauts not only know who you are but want to talk to you specifically? That's that's got to be such a what their hell moment?
Reem
Pod exclusive NASA astronauts actually listened to my dad for know when they're in space. Here's my
Adam
question though. If you are on the International Space Station, do you have to download like a season's worth of podcast episodes before you Go up. Can you download podcasts in space?
Rhianna
I reckon you must, they must have Wi Fi.
Adam
In space, no-one can hear you stream.
Rhianna
Very good! The other thing that they were incredibly coy about but in such a way that it was basically an announcement in itself is that they are definitely casting an actual TV version or series or porno, and we've kind of always it's always been hinted at throughout the years but now I guess putting the podcast to bed means that they have the time and space and an actual now through thread to create a narrative arc. Do you think that they're going to keep the you know, because they have been casting this genuinely with each special guests they've had on? Do you think that that's going to stick in any way or we're going to see Lin Manuel Miranda pop up as y'all
Reem
I can see it being a sort of like a mockumentary or comedy special because I don't think I bought some some sort of like comedy murder mystery because it's I don't think any part of the plot is going to amount to being a Drama goes into like 50 different directions. But it'll be fun to see guest appearances from the people they've had on the show.
Rhianna
Yeah, that would be epic. I can't wait to see Dame and Thompson pop up as the Duchess presumably. Well, a massive thank you to my Dad Wrote A Porno team for giving us a podcast exclusive. Thank you so much to you for listening. You can find out more about pod pod and all of the things that we've discussed on pod pod.com. You can sign up to our daily email bulletins and follow us at pod pod official rate and subscribe and also leave us a little review. You know, we'd love to know what you think of the podcast and what we can add to it. Thank you so much to ream and to Adam. The podcast is produced by Emma Corsham for Haymarket Business Media, and I'm your host Rihanna Dillon.
